Juntaro Sampei (Juntaro)
Guest
Where can I see survivors impressions of Cameron's Titanic? Or someone who have any information about it, please tell me.
Thank you.
Juntaro
Thank you.
Juntaro
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What were survivors impressions of Cameron's Titanic
- Thread starter Juntaro Sampei (Juntaro)
- Start date
Michael Findlay
Member
Dear Juntaro,
The only survivor who saw the James Cameron movie was Eleanor Johnson Shuman. Unfortunately, Mrs. Shuman passed away shortly after the film's release. Eleanor saw the movie at least four times and enjoyed it very much. Of course, certain scenes in the movie effected her emotions. Although she was only 18 months old when the Titanic sank (with no memory of the actual sinking), the impact of what she and her family experienced was chilling.
To my knowledge, none of the other five living survivors have seen the movie. Millvina Dean told me just last week that she still hasn't seen it, and prefers not to. I don't know about Mr. Navratil, Mrs. Dainton, Miss Asplund or Mrs. VanTongerloo but I would tend to doubt it given their current ages and the emotional impact that movie would have on some of them. With the exception of Mrs. VanTongerloo who is living in a nursing home and is almost legally blind, the other four survivors lost their fathers and other members of their family in the sinking.
Many survivors in years previous have declined to see any movies concerning the Titanic disaster. Marjorie Newell Robb refused to view any depiction of the Titanic's sinking, and found it most difficult to even open a book connected with it. Mary Lines Wellman, when invited to see the 1958 premiere of "A NIGHT TO REMEMBER", sent her regrets to the film's producer. "I went through it once, and that was enough for me," she wrote.
I hope this will be of some help.
Sincerely,
Michael Findlay
The only survivor who saw the James Cameron movie was Eleanor Johnson Shuman. Unfortunately, Mrs. Shuman passed away shortly after the film's release. Eleanor saw the movie at least four times and enjoyed it very much. Of course, certain scenes in the movie effected her emotions. Although she was only 18 months old when the Titanic sank (with no memory of the actual sinking), the impact of what she and her family experienced was chilling.
To my knowledge, none of the other five living survivors have seen the movie. Millvina Dean told me just last week that she still hasn't seen it, and prefers not to. I don't know about Mr. Navratil, Mrs. Dainton, Miss Asplund or Mrs. VanTongerloo but I would tend to doubt it given their current ages and the emotional impact that movie would have on some of them. With the exception of Mrs. VanTongerloo who is living in a nursing home and is almost legally blind, the other four survivors lost their fathers and other members of their family in the sinking.
Many survivors in years previous have declined to see any movies concerning the Titanic disaster. Marjorie Newell Robb refused to view any depiction of the Titanic's sinking, and found it most difficult to even open a book connected with it. Mary Lines Wellman, when invited to see the 1958 premiere of "A NIGHT TO REMEMBER", sent her regrets to the film's producer. "I went through it once, and that was enough for me," she wrote.
I hope this will be of some help.
Sincerely,
Michael Findlay
Juntaro Sampei (Juntaro)
Guest
Dear Michael
Thanks so much for your polite answer. I'm sorry I have few words to say appreciation to you, because I'm not good at English.
I have an unofficial Titanic Japanese Page. Your information is of much help to my site.
Regards,
Juntaro
Thanks so much for your polite answer. I'm sorry I have few words to say appreciation to you, because I'm not good at English.
I have an unofficial Titanic Japanese Page. Your information is of much help to my site.
Regards,
Juntaro
Richard A. Krebes
Member
I found Eleanor Johnson Shuman's death sadly ironic, considering that she passed on at the height of that crazy-as-Captain Finlander "Titanic mania" wave.
I APPLAUD Milvina Dean for not seeing the '97 film.
Not only is she respecting her own feelings about the hell she escaped, but she also did not bow to all that dangdable HYPE that wooed so many others into seeing the film (and regurgitating the hype instead of drawing their own conclusions?)
Richard K.
I APPLAUD Milvina Dean for not seeing the '97 film.
Not only is she respecting her own feelings about the hell she escaped, but she also did not bow to all that dangdable HYPE that wooed so many others into seeing the film (and regurgitating the hype instead of drawing their own conclusions?)
Richard K.
Neil McRae
Member
I remember reading a small profile People magazine wrote on Mr. Navratil just after he died recently. It mentioned him having a strong reaction to Cameron's Titanic. Not necessarily a negative one but just that he moved him somehow.
Michael Findlay
Member
Neil,
I believe the only two survivors who saw Cameron's movie were Michel Navratil and Eleanor Johnson Shuman. Unfortunately, both of them have passed away.
Of the four remaining survivors, Millvina told me that she still hasn't seen the film - at least not in its entirety. I don't know for sure about the other three ladies but I doubt it.
Eleanor Shuman saw the movie premiere in Chicago along with James Cameron and got to meet him. Actually, Eleanor saw the movie three or four times and cried each time she saw it. Michel held off on viewing the film until recently and he did so in the privacy of his home - not the theater as the PEOPLE magazine reported. He was quite moved by the film, and his daughter Elisabeth told me that he had tears in his eyes after the whole family watched it. His chief impression was the scene where Fifth Officer Lowe returned to the scene of the wreck to rescue the dying swimmers. Daughter Elisabeth related that her father whispered that he hoped his father didn't suffer that long and agonizing death in the icy waters. He also enjoyed the scenes where it showed the Titanic jetting through the Atlantic with the swimming dolphins. Michel always commented that he frequently remembered looking over the side of the ship with his father and watching the waves break away from the ship.
Hope this helps....
Mike Findlay
I believe the only two survivors who saw Cameron's movie were Michel Navratil and Eleanor Johnson Shuman. Unfortunately, both of them have passed away.
Of the four remaining survivors, Millvina told me that she still hasn't seen the film - at least not in its entirety. I don't know for sure about the other three ladies but I doubt it.
Eleanor Shuman saw the movie premiere in Chicago along with James Cameron and got to meet him. Actually, Eleanor saw the movie three or four times and cried each time she saw it. Michel held off on viewing the film until recently and he did so in the privacy of his home - not the theater as the PEOPLE magazine reported. He was quite moved by the film, and his daughter Elisabeth told me that he had tears in his eyes after the whole family watched it. His chief impression was the scene where Fifth Officer Lowe returned to the scene of the wreck to rescue the dying swimmers. Daughter Elisabeth related that her father whispered that he hoped his father didn't suffer that long and agonizing death in the icy waters. He also enjoyed the scenes where it showed the Titanic jetting through the Atlantic with the swimming dolphins. Michel always commented that he frequently remembered looking over the side of the ship with his father and watching the waves break away from the ship.
Hope this helps....
Mike Findlay
William Ajello
Member
It is highly ironic that the one survivor who may have had alot to say about it was Eva Hart but unfortunately, Ms. Hart died on feb 15, 1996 just as "Titanic" began production.
Now I have read that Eva Hart was the ONLY Titanic survivor living (at that time) who could still give highly detailed accounts of the sinking. Unfortunately, I do not have the article or book that I saw that in in front of me.
I understand she released her memoirs before she passed away...it's sad, I do not believe there is anyone left, please correct me if I am wrong.
Now I have read that Eva Hart was the ONLY Titanic survivor living (at that time) who could still give highly detailed accounts of the sinking. Unfortunately, I do not have the article or book that I saw that in in front of me.
I understand she released her memoirs before she passed away...it's sad, I do not believe there is anyone left, please correct me if I am wrong.
Hi William,
I know that there are several TV-interviews with miss Eva Hart (I have one myself). In those interviews she makes very clear statements about the sinking. I think they are reliable as miss Hart was allready a rather old child during the sinking. The now living survivors were just babies if I'm correct. I don't believe that they can give reliable rememberings about the sinking.
Regards,
Rolf
I know that there are several TV-interviews with miss Eva Hart (I have one myself). In those interviews she makes very clear statements about the sinking. I think they are reliable as miss Hart was allready a rather old child during the sinking. The now living survivors were just babies if I'm correct. I don't believe that they can give reliable rememberings about the sinking.
Regards,
Rolf
Sam Brannigan
Member
Personally, I doubt Miss Hart's account of her father helping the officers fill the boats (I heard the recording on the Discovery channels "Deep Inside the Titanic").
She claims her father helped out because he knew of the sea and things but I feel that she was, understandably, painting her father in a rose tinted way.
Because of that statement on her part, I also feel that her assertion that her mother had a premonition was also a piece of information which was made up.
Miss Hart led a remarkable, admirable life after the disaster, and many of her observations about the sinking are important (the breaking up, for instance), but I still feel that she added her family story to the myth of the disaster and that some of her remarks about her mother and father are untrue.
Regards
Sam
She claims her father helped out because he knew of the sea and things but I feel that she was, understandably, painting her father in a rose tinted way.
Because of that statement on her part, I also feel that her assertion that her mother had a premonition was also a piece of information which was made up.
Miss Hart led a remarkable, admirable life after the disaster, and many of her observations about the sinking are important (the breaking up, for instance), but I still feel that she added her family story to the myth of the disaster and that some of her remarks about her mother and father are untrue.
Regards
Sam
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
All,
If we extend the topic to descendents of Titanic passengers/crew, I can relate that, though Lucy Duff Gordon's grandson refused to see the film, her great-nephew, Andrew Duff Gordon, did and he told me he thought the story was too long and drawn-out.
However he added that the sinking shots were more graphic than he expected and that he was very moved by them, remembering what his father had once told him about what "Uncle Coco," as the family called Sir Cosmo, had always said when asked what the scene was really like: "I can never describe that to you." Cosmo would say,"It is too horrible to talk about."
Andrew said after seeing the realistic final scenes of the ship in the movie that he understood well what his great-uncle must have meant.
Sam,
I see no reason to doubt Eva Hart's story about her mother's premonition. She always claimed that and maintained it through the years, hardly changing a word each time she retold the story. The strangeness of her mother being in bed all day, out of worry, and awake at night standing guard, as it were, made a definite impression on little Eva, as it would any child of that age, or anyone of any age, I'd imagine. I can't think that is a fabrication.
As to whether her father helped to load women and children into the boats, I also don't see that as a far-fetched story even if it is probably true that she did not actually know for sure that he helped. It stands to reason though that many of the men left on deck helped the crew to get the women away in the boats. Even if Mr. Hart didn't help, it doesn't make him any less of a hero, and I think maybe that is really the only point she was wanting to make: that her father was a hero. A little girl losing her father to the sea wants to see him as a hero. And he was, wasn't he?
Randy
If we extend the topic to descendents of Titanic passengers/crew, I can relate that, though Lucy Duff Gordon's grandson refused to see the film, her great-nephew, Andrew Duff Gordon, did and he told me he thought the story was too long and drawn-out.
However he added that the sinking shots were more graphic than he expected and that he was very moved by them, remembering what his father had once told him about what "Uncle Coco," as the family called Sir Cosmo, had always said when asked what the scene was really like: "I can never describe that to you." Cosmo would say,"It is too horrible to talk about."
Andrew said after seeing the realistic final scenes of the ship in the movie that he understood well what his great-uncle must have meant.
Sam,
I see no reason to doubt Eva Hart's story about her mother's premonition. She always claimed that and maintained it through the years, hardly changing a word each time she retold the story. The strangeness of her mother being in bed all day, out of worry, and awake at night standing guard, as it were, made a definite impression on little Eva, as it would any child of that age, or anyone of any age, I'd imagine. I can't think that is a fabrication.
As to whether her father helped to load women and children into the boats, I also don't see that as a far-fetched story even if it is probably true that she did not actually know for sure that he helped. It stands to reason though that many of the men left on deck helped the crew to get the women away in the boats. Even if Mr. Hart didn't help, it doesn't make him any less of a hero, and I think maybe that is really the only point she was wanting to make: that her father was a hero. A little girl losing her father to the sea wants to see him as a hero. And he was, wasn't he?
Randy
Michael Findlay
Member
To all,
The only two known survivors who saw the Cameron movie were Eleanor Johnson Shuman and Michel Navratil. At the time of the film's release in December, 1997, six survivors were still alive.
Louise Laroche died one month after the film's release and her failing health prevented her from seeing the movie. Eleanor Johnson Shuman was an invited guest of James Cameron to see the premiere in Chicago, Illinois. Eleanor viewed the film there, and later saw it twice at her local movie theatre. She was deeply moved by the film, and commented that she cried through most of it. Sadly, Eleanor died three months after the film's release.
Michel Navratil saw the film about a year ago in the privacy of his residence in France. He was very moved by the film, and his daughter said that he was haunted by the memory of how his father must have died a agonizing death. Michel applauded the film's realistic special effects and enjoyed seeing the ship "in full color." He noted that little reference was made to the second-class passengers. Michel died three months ago in France.
Of the four remaining survivors, I know that Millvina Dean still hasn't seen the film in its entirety but has viewed many of the scenes that were featured on television and in books. I do not think that Lillian Asplund or Barbara West Dainton have seen the movie at all, and Mrs. VanTongerloo's family in Michigan maintain that she has not seen it either and has no desire to.
On a separate topic regarding Eva Hart, I must caution that Miss Hart's story changed over time. Many present day researchers believe that Eva's mother's premonition was "enhanced" by the passage of time. Eva claimed that her mother slept during the day - fearful that the tragedy she envisioned would occur in the night and she wanted to be fully awake. Trouble is Esther Hart was awake on Sunday, April 14, 1912, and was busy writing a letter about the day's events. Esther Hart described nothing of her premonition and generally seemed to be enjoying the trip.
It is impossible to say whether Esther Hart told Eva about the premonition years afterward, which Eva later related time and time again, or whether Eva herself exaggerated the tale to make it more dramatic. Eva claimed back in the 1970s and early 1980s that the Titanic sank intact 'right before my eyes.' In 1985, and afterward, Eva claimed that she saw the Titanic break in two 'right before my eyes'. Of course, the Titanic had been located in 1985, and Eva changed her story to match new evidence.
It is impossible to determine just how much Eva actually remembered of the Titanic. She clearly remembered many aspects of the voyage and sinking, but many feel that her memories were enhanced and "improved" by her mother, fellow survivors, the passage of time, and the influence of movies and books over the years.
Mike Findlay
The only two known survivors who saw the Cameron movie were Eleanor Johnson Shuman and Michel Navratil. At the time of the film's release in December, 1997, six survivors were still alive.
Louise Laroche died one month after the film's release and her failing health prevented her from seeing the movie. Eleanor Johnson Shuman was an invited guest of James Cameron to see the premiere in Chicago, Illinois. Eleanor viewed the film there, and later saw it twice at her local movie theatre. She was deeply moved by the film, and commented that she cried through most of it. Sadly, Eleanor died three months after the film's release.
Michel Navratil saw the film about a year ago in the privacy of his residence in France. He was very moved by the film, and his daughter said that he was haunted by the memory of how his father must have died a agonizing death. Michel applauded the film's realistic special effects and enjoyed seeing the ship "in full color." He noted that little reference was made to the second-class passengers. Michel died three months ago in France.
Of the four remaining survivors, I know that Millvina Dean still hasn't seen the film in its entirety but has viewed many of the scenes that were featured on television and in books. I do not think that Lillian Asplund or Barbara West Dainton have seen the movie at all, and Mrs. VanTongerloo's family in Michigan maintain that she has not seen it either and has no desire to.
On a separate topic regarding Eva Hart, I must caution that Miss Hart's story changed over time. Many present day researchers believe that Eva's mother's premonition was "enhanced" by the passage of time. Eva claimed that her mother slept during the day - fearful that the tragedy she envisioned would occur in the night and she wanted to be fully awake. Trouble is Esther Hart was awake on Sunday, April 14, 1912, and was busy writing a letter about the day's events. Esther Hart described nothing of her premonition and generally seemed to be enjoying the trip.
It is impossible to say whether Esther Hart told Eva about the premonition years afterward, which Eva later related time and time again, or whether Eva herself exaggerated the tale to make it more dramatic. Eva claimed back in the 1970s and early 1980s that the Titanic sank intact 'right before my eyes.' In 1985, and afterward, Eva claimed that she saw the Titanic break in two 'right before my eyes'. Of course, the Titanic had been located in 1985, and Eva changed her story to match new evidence.
It is impossible to determine just how much Eva actually remembered of the Titanic. She clearly remembered many aspects of the voyage and sinking, but many feel that her memories were enhanced and "improved" by her mother, fellow survivors, the passage of time, and the influence of movies and books over the years.
Mike Findlay
Sam Brannigan
Member
Randy
I totally agree that Eva Harts father was a hero, and that Miss Hart was completely justified in her admiration for her father.
However, from the account in her autobiography, and the account in the television documentary I heard, she claimed, in essence, that her father went above and beyond the heroic stoicism that so many other male passengers could be credited for.
She claimed that because he knew of the sea (questionable)he helped the officers to load the boats, or at the very least, her boat.
I feel a bit uneasy about statng these opinions because I realise there are two Eva Harts that most of us are familiar with. The first is the old lady recalling events from several decades before, the second is the happy seven year old child we see in the photographs.
I think that her story changed with the passage of several decades, a completely understandable reaction.
While not trying to open a can of worms,it would have been interesting, in retrospect, to have heard Mrs Hart and Miss Hart's version of accounts on the Carpathia.
I wonder how many of the Titanics other passengers told the real story (or not)
Regards
Sam
I totally agree that Eva Harts father was a hero, and that Miss Hart was completely justified in her admiration for her father.
However, from the account in her autobiography, and the account in the television documentary I heard, she claimed, in essence, that her father went above and beyond the heroic stoicism that so many other male passengers could be credited for.
She claimed that because he knew of the sea (questionable)he helped the officers to load the boats, or at the very least, her boat.
I feel a bit uneasy about statng these opinions because I realise there are two Eva Harts that most of us are familiar with. The first is the old lady recalling events from several decades before, the second is the happy seven year old child we see in the photographs.
I think that her story changed with the passage of several decades, a completely understandable reaction.
While not trying to open a can of worms,it would have been interesting, in retrospect, to have heard Mrs Hart and Miss Hart's version of accounts on the Carpathia.
I wonder how many of the Titanics other passengers told the real story (or not)
Regards
Sam
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Mike,
It is interesting that only now after her death are some people openly challenging the validity of Eva Hart's story.
Did anyone question her about the inconsistencies of her claims while she was able to explain? It seems to me that certain researchers who are now trying to poke holes in her account ought to have been on their mettle and questioned her more pointedly on the issues that seem incompatible.
I suppose they, like so many others, were too busy grinning dumbly beside her in photos and getting her to autograph everything in sight to worry over trying to set the record straight by doing a really in-depth interview.
Poor lady. I think she might have explained the reason for the inconsistency between her's and her mother's story, if someone had thought to bring it up to her.
I don't care for the habit of some biographers who smile in their subjects' faces and hang on their every word and then question their claims later. If there is a question at hand that the subject can answer (or choose not to as the case may be), I think an historian has an obligation to ask it, however controversial.
As it is now, in the case of Miss Hart, unless someone somewhere took it on themselves to get her explanation for the conflicting stories, we are left with an unkind suspicion lurking over her version of events.
I hope some responsible writer did get her take on the situation; if not, it is shoddy work on the part of those who had the chance but are now crying wolf.
What are your thoughts on this, Mike?
Randy
It is interesting that only now after her death are some people openly challenging the validity of Eva Hart's story.
Did anyone question her about the inconsistencies of her claims while she was able to explain? It seems to me that certain researchers who are now trying to poke holes in her account ought to have been on their mettle and questioned her more pointedly on the issues that seem incompatible.
I suppose they, like so many others, were too busy grinning dumbly beside her in photos and getting her to autograph everything in sight to worry over trying to set the record straight by doing a really in-depth interview.
Poor lady. I think she might have explained the reason for the inconsistency between her's and her mother's story, if someone had thought to bring it up to her.
I don't care for the habit of some biographers who smile in their subjects' faces and hang on their every word and then question their claims later. If there is a question at hand that the subject can answer (or choose not to as the case may be), I think an historian has an obligation to ask it, however controversial.
As it is now, in the case of Miss Hart, unless someone somewhere took it on themselves to get her explanation for the conflicting stories, we are left with an unkind suspicion lurking over her version of events.
I hope some responsible writer did get her take on the situation; if not, it is shoddy work on the part of those who had the chance but are now crying wolf.
What are your thoughts on this, Mike?
Randy
William Ajello
Member
It is impossible to determine just how much Eva actually remembered of the Titanic. She clearly remembered many aspects of the voyage and sinking, but many feel that her memories were enhanced and "improved" by her mother, fellow survivors, the passage of time, and the influence of movies and books over the years.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good evening Mike (not to be confused with stadart)....Stupid me goes and shoots my mouth off impressed with the way Eva could rattle off accounts of the sinking and me, not realizing that she was only 7 years old when The Titanic sank, I feel like a boob but I guess that is why we are here to help each other...thanks Mike for knocking me back a few points....
Sincerly,
Bill
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good evening Mike (not to be confused with stadart)....Stupid me goes and shoots my mouth off impressed with the way Eva could rattle off accounts of the sinking and me, not realizing that she was only 7 years old when The Titanic sank, I feel like a boob but I guess that is why we are here to help each other...thanks Mike for knocking me back a few points....
Sincerly,
Bill
Sam Brannigan
Member
Randy
Your post came a minute after mine and I agree wholeheartedly with it.
I wasn't in a position, nor did I have the inclination before she died five years ago, to interview Miss Hart but I think you have raised a pertinent point.
The dewy eyed sentiment associated with so many interviews with Titanic survivors (Walter Lord being the original and chief culprit in my opinion) has sometimes clouded peoples judgement as to what really happened on the night.
For example, although I can't explain how he survived, I firmly dispute Charles Joughins story.
And there is the crux. I can't explain it because everyone just accepted it and said "Well done old chap."
Obviously Miss Hart knew more about the night than any of us, and she may well have been telling the truth as she remembered through the eyes of a young girl.
No one wants to hurt anyones feelings, especially an old lady presenting her case, but some gentle cross examination would have been so helpful.
Regards
Sam
Your post came a minute after mine and I agree wholeheartedly with it.
I wasn't in a position, nor did I have the inclination before she died five years ago, to interview Miss Hart but I think you have raised a pertinent point.
The dewy eyed sentiment associated with so many interviews with Titanic survivors (Walter Lord being the original and chief culprit in my opinion) has sometimes clouded peoples judgement as to what really happened on the night.
For example, although I can't explain how he survived, I firmly dispute Charles Joughins story.
And there is the crux. I can't explain it because everyone just accepted it and said "Well done old chap."
Obviously Miss Hart knew more about the night than any of us, and she may well have been telling the truth as she remembered through the eyes of a young girl.
No one wants to hurt anyones feelings, especially an old lady presenting her case, but some gentle cross examination would have been so helpful.
Regards
Sam
