He was a relative of mine, I just recently found this out, and I need some help on trying to obtain info on him. I live here in America, so I don't have access to any sort of British records or anything like that. Any help would be appreciated. I thank u.
Arthur Lawrence 1st Class Saloon Steward
- Thread starter Edward Chase Stephen Lawrence XVIII
- Start date
Edward - Here is a very interesting account of his funeral along with other details:
Lawrence, Arthur. Lived at 66 Oxford Street, St Marys, Southampton. Occupation - Saloon Steward. 35 years old. (Born in London).
(Had a wife (Lily) and young son, wife ran a sweet shop at Rochford, Essex).
Body Number 90. Estimated age 35. Hair medium. Clothing:- Black rain proofed coat, dark mixture suit, white steward's coat marked ''A. Lawrence'', knitted vest, green and pink pyjamas. Effects:- Gun metal watch and chain, button hook, bundle letters, two fountain pens, pocket knife, keys, book of stamps, empty purse. (Body returned to England and interred at West Derby Cemetery, Liverpool). Home address West Street, Rochford, Essex.
(From the Southend Standard, May 16, 1912)
Titanic Victims Funeral.
Pathetic Ceremony at Liverpool. Impressive Scenes at the Funeral of Steward Lawrence.
A funeral unique in the history of Liverpool was solemnised at the West Derby Cemetery, on Monday, when the body of Arthur Lawrence, one of the victims of the Titanic disaster, and of late a resident of Rochford, Essex was buried. By special request of the relatives of the deceased, the interment was of a quiet character. The Rev. W. H. Harper officiated, and the chief mourners were: Mrs. Lawrence, the widow, Mr. Charles Lawrence, brother and other relatives, and shipmate Wright, the latter being one of the steward's who survived the wreck.
In conversation with one of the relatives, a Standard representative was informed that the body had been picked up by the United States Government steamer Mackay Bennett, about 200 miles from the scene of the disaster. It was taken to Halifax, embalmed, and then transferred to Boston, and brought to Liverpool by the SS Arabic on Friday, and there placed in the private mortuary of Messrs. W. J. Rimmer, Ltd., the undertakers, who had the funeral arrangements in hand.
The American casket in which the body had been brought to Liverpool was enclosed in a polished oak coffin with brass fittings, which bore the inscription: ''Arthur Lawrence, died 15th April, 1912, aged 34 years''.
The funeral procession started from the mortuary and comprised the hearse and four coaches. A sympathetic crowd gathered in the vicinity of the mortuary, hats were raised and women wept as the cortege slowly left the premises and wended its way the three or four miles to the West Derby Cemetery. There another crowd had gathered to do honour to the memory of the Titanic victim. As the clergyman solemnly intoned the funeral service the scene was most impressive. Pathetic figures in the church were three of the deceased's widow and sisters. Attired in sombre black and weeping bitterly they drew the heartfelt sympathy of all present.
Among the many wreaths which covered the coffin there was none more pathetic than that bearing the inscription, ''His broken hearted wife''. There were many other wreaths including those from the Masonic society.
The procession from the church to the grave was made amidst a downpour of rain from leaden skies. At the graveside, when the clergyman had intoned the last words over the dead, the Masonic brethren observed the ritual of their order, the most prominent feature of which was the singing of ''Days and Moments.''. Then, with a last look at the coffin, those present quietly took their seats in the waiting coaches and were driven to the Lancashire and Yorkshire station to take the train to Freshfields, where the widow was staying with her brother.
A touching scene was witnessed at the railway station. The porters and persons on the platform raised their hats and stood bareheaded whilst the mourners made their way onto the train.
To a Standard representative the survivor Wright made a lucid statement of the disaster as it had happened to him. He was off duty and in his berth when the collision occurred. The shock of the impact awakened him. At first, like many others on board, he did not realise the seriousness of the position, but he went on deck and was ordered into boat Number 13, there to take an oar and assist in sailing the seventy persons the boat contained. For five hours the party were in this perilous position, and the cries of the drowning fell on their ears. ''It was an experience,'' said Mr. Wright, ''such as I could never have imagined, and one that I hope never to have again to go through. it was a black night, and so cold that it felt like being in an iceberg. It was about break of day when on the horizon, we sighted the headlights of the Carpathia. Never was there so welcome a sight. Of course, we did not know what vessel she was, but we did know that she meant salvation for us. Even at this hour, when we realised that rescue was at hand and that the frail craft in which we had pulled from the wreck was to be exchanged for the security of a liner's deck, we had no idea that so many lives had gone. We lost everything, and I looked a regular wreck when we reached New York.''
Mr. Wright mentioned that whilst he had not known Lawrence intimately, the had been shipmates for about five years and they were together in the Olympic when she collided with HMS Hawke. Lawrence, he describes as a quiet conscientious worker, one ever ready to do his utmost not only for the comfort of the passengers, but for the welfare of his fellow shipmates. Mr. Wright was evidently deeply affected by the loss of his brother steward.
(Authors note: Yet another mystery. Mr. Wright (Steward is not named amongst survivors - but a William Wright (Glory Hole Steward) is.?
Best regards - Brian J. Ticehurst, Southamnpton UK.
Lawrence, Arthur. Lived at 66 Oxford Street, St Marys, Southampton. Occupation - Saloon Steward. 35 years old. (Born in London).
(Had a wife (Lily) and young son, wife ran a sweet shop at Rochford, Essex).
Body Number 90. Estimated age 35. Hair medium. Clothing:- Black rain proofed coat, dark mixture suit, white steward's coat marked ''A. Lawrence'', knitted vest, green and pink pyjamas. Effects:- Gun metal watch and chain, button hook, bundle letters, two fountain pens, pocket knife, keys, book of stamps, empty purse. (Body returned to England and interred at West Derby Cemetery, Liverpool). Home address West Street, Rochford, Essex.
(From the Southend Standard, May 16, 1912)
Titanic Victims Funeral.
Pathetic Ceremony at Liverpool. Impressive Scenes at the Funeral of Steward Lawrence.
A funeral unique in the history of Liverpool was solemnised at the West Derby Cemetery, on Monday, when the body of Arthur Lawrence, one of the victims of the Titanic disaster, and of late a resident of Rochford, Essex was buried. By special request of the relatives of the deceased, the interment was of a quiet character. The Rev. W. H. Harper officiated, and the chief mourners were: Mrs. Lawrence, the widow, Mr. Charles Lawrence, brother and other relatives, and shipmate Wright, the latter being one of the steward's who survived the wreck.
In conversation with one of the relatives, a Standard representative was informed that the body had been picked up by the United States Government steamer Mackay Bennett, about 200 miles from the scene of the disaster. It was taken to Halifax, embalmed, and then transferred to Boston, and brought to Liverpool by the SS Arabic on Friday, and there placed in the private mortuary of Messrs. W. J. Rimmer, Ltd., the undertakers, who had the funeral arrangements in hand.
The American casket in which the body had been brought to Liverpool was enclosed in a polished oak coffin with brass fittings, which bore the inscription: ''Arthur Lawrence, died 15th April, 1912, aged 34 years''.
The funeral procession started from the mortuary and comprised the hearse and four coaches. A sympathetic crowd gathered in the vicinity of the mortuary, hats were raised and women wept as the cortege slowly left the premises and wended its way the three or four miles to the West Derby Cemetery. There another crowd had gathered to do honour to the memory of the Titanic victim. As the clergyman solemnly intoned the funeral service the scene was most impressive. Pathetic figures in the church were three of the deceased's widow and sisters. Attired in sombre black and weeping bitterly they drew the heartfelt sympathy of all present.
Among the many wreaths which covered the coffin there was none more pathetic than that bearing the inscription, ''His broken hearted wife''. There were many other wreaths including those from the Masonic society.
The procession from the church to the grave was made amidst a downpour of rain from leaden skies. At the graveside, when the clergyman had intoned the last words over the dead, the Masonic brethren observed the ritual of their order, the most prominent feature of which was the singing of ''Days and Moments.''. Then, with a last look at the coffin, those present quietly took their seats in the waiting coaches and were driven to the Lancashire and Yorkshire station to take the train to Freshfields, where the widow was staying with her brother.
A touching scene was witnessed at the railway station. The porters and persons on the platform raised their hats and stood bareheaded whilst the mourners made their way onto the train.
To a Standard representative the survivor Wright made a lucid statement of the disaster as it had happened to him. He was off duty and in his berth when the collision occurred. The shock of the impact awakened him. At first, like many others on board, he did not realise the seriousness of the position, but he went on deck and was ordered into boat Number 13, there to take an oar and assist in sailing the seventy persons the boat contained. For five hours the party were in this perilous position, and the cries of the drowning fell on their ears. ''It was an experience,'' said Mr. Wright, ''such as I could never have imagined, and one that I hope never to have again to go through. it was a black night, and so cold that it felt like being in an iceberg. It was about break of day when on the horizon, we sighted the headlights of the Carpathia. Never was there so welcome a sight. Of course, we did not know what vessel she was, but we did know that she meant salvation for us. Even at this hour, when we realised that rescue was at hand and that the frail craft in which we had pulled from the wreck was to be exchanged for the security of a liner's deck, we had no idea that so many lives had gone. We lost everything, and I looked a regular wreck when we reached New York.''
Mr. Wright mentioned that whilst he had not known Lawrence intimately, the had been shipmates for about five years and they were together in the Olympic when she collided with HMS Hawke. Lawrence, he describes as a quiet conscientious worker, one ever ready to do his utmost not only for the comfort of the passengers, but for the welfare of his fellow shipmates. Mr. Wright was evidently deeply affected by the loss of his brother steward.
(Authors note: Yet another mystery. Mr. Wright (Steward is not named amongst survivors - but a William Wright (Glory Hole Steward) is.?
Best regards - Brian J. Ticehurst, Southamnpton UK.
Bob Godfrey
Member
Brian, it looks like the Glory Hole steward is your man. Craig Stringer (in Titanic People) records that William Wright and Arthur Lawrence were good friends and that Wright travelled to Liverpool to attend the funeral.
Philip Davies
Member
Hi all,
Just to say I will be at BTS Convention in Liverpool this weekend, and to ask if anyone has any info regarding the below (posted quite some time ago now), then be great to see any BTS members at Liverpool.
Especially - Friends made in Halifax last year - Nikki,Carl?
Hi all, just to say a big thanks to Mike Cowlard,and all at BTS for a fabulous weekend in Halifax.It was very well organised from the airport to the return!.
My interest in Titanic has spanned 30 years or so (BTS Member for 15 or so!), but brief background are that :I was born in Southampton,now live and work in Liverpool(opposite White Star old offices),I worked for Alexandra Towing Co.whose tugs assisted Titanic from Belfast,and my dads father worked for White Star on the Adriatic,Baltic and Cedric as a steward.(Amongst many other things!!). I also live less than 5 minutes away from the burial place of Saloon Steward - Arthur Lawrence who I am currently researching his family history.Visiting Fairview a few weeks ago was very moving,as for me, although the Titanic herself was a wonderful ship,the people and lives of those aboard have always been the main focus of my ever continuing studies!!!
Anyway....the main reason for joining the Message Board of ET is that Geoff Whitfield some years ago provided me with details of Arthur Lawrence, and I have got details about Arthur Lawrence from ET since, but I am trying to research any distant relatives to learn more about the Lawrence family.Also if anyone can help with the actual grave location in West Derby Cemetary / pictures etc. I notice that 3 years ago a relative Stephen Chase Lawrence XVIII had been on the site but his name has now been deleted. Can anyone else help further?
I hope that this will be the first of many posts to the site,and have learnt so much about the people aboard over the last few years from ET so a big thanks to all.
Just to say I will be at BTS Convention in Liverpool this weekend, and to ask if anyone has any info regarding the below (posted quite some time ago now), then be great to see any BTS members at Liverpool.
Especially - Friends made in Halifax last year - Nikki,Carl?
Hi all, just to say a big thanks to Mike Cowlard,and all at BTS for a fabulous weekend in Halifax.It was very well organised from the airport to the return!.
My interest in Titanic has spanned 30 years or so (BTS Member for 15 or so!), but brief background are that :I was born in Southampton,now live and work in Liverpool(opposite White Star old offices),I worked for Alexandra Towing Co.whose tugs assisted Titanic from Belfast,and my dads father worked for White Star on the Adriatic,Baltic and Cedric as a steward.(Amongst many other things!!). I also live less than 5 minutes away from the burial place of Saloon Steward - Arthur Lawrence who I am currently researching his family history.Visiting Fairview a few weeks ago was very moving,as for me, although the Titanic herself was a wonderful ship,the people and lives of those aboard have always been the main focus of my ever continuing studies!!!
Anyway....the main reason for joining the Message Board of ET is that Geoff Whitfield some years ago provided me with details of Arthur Lawrence, and I have got details about Arthur Lawrence from ET since, but I am trying to research any distant relatives to learn more about the Lawrence family.Also if anyone can help with the actual grave location in West Derby Cemetary / pictures etc. I notice that 3 years ago a relative Stephen Chase Lawrence XVIII had been on the site but his name has now been deleted. Can anyone else help further?
I hope that this will be the first of many posts to the site,and have learnt so much about the people aboard over the last few years from ET so a big thanks to all.
Chase Stephen Lawrence
Member
Hello, Mr. Davies. I am that same person (Chase Stephen Lawrence XVIII) that you mentioned in this post. I used to post on here often, but lost touch after a good long while. But I'm back now and happy to fill in some of the gaps with the best information I have.
The Lawrence family on Great Britian spans all the way back to the days of King Arthur.
Arthur Lawrence was a distant relative of mine. I know that before sailing on the RMS Titanic, he was a Saloon Steward on another White Star Line vessel the Adriatic. Along with his wife they lived in Southampton England. His wife Lily owned a sweat shop while taking care of their young son Edward. I do know that Arthur had a brother named Edward, but what happened to him is unknown to us at this point.
Edward at the age of 20 moved to London and became a very wealthy developer and designer. There he met this woman from Edinburough. They were married and later moved to Leithbridge Alberta, Canada. There, they had two children Edward Jr. and Christopher.
Christopher went on to marry and later have just 1 child, Christopher, Jr. He is now divorced and currently lives in Helena, MT.
Edward Jr. (aka Edward XVII - my Grandfather) later moved to Calgary Alberta, Canada where he met this Polish woman named Stephanie. They were married and had two children Brad and Todd. 2 years after Todd (my father) was born, they moved to Great Falls, MT where my Grandfather Edward XVII started up Elk River Concrete and became a self-made millionaire. Both Brad and Todd attened school in Montana all the way up to College.
Brad met and married a woman named Anette and had two daughters; Jennifer and Page. Currently Page is serving in the US Air Force and is stationed in Iraq on her second tour of duty.
Todd later met and married Sandy (my mother) Replogle in Billings, MT. Together they had two children; myself and my sister Ashley.
Currently, I have been married for 6 years with no children and my sister Ashley has been un-married with a child. His name is Cayden and he is 15 months old.
At the age of 18, I took upon the family heritage and became known as Edward XVIII. It's been a family tradition for centuries. Because my wife and I have opted NOT to have children and my sister is not having any more, the next Edward will be my Grandfather's Brother's Son Christopher. He will be Edward the XIX.
The Lawrence Family now spreads from WA state, over to parts of Montana, through Canada and spanning across Western Europe.
Currently, the last 4 Generations are still living.
The Lawrence family on Great Britian spans all the way back to the days of King Arthur.
Arthur Lawrence was a distant relative of mine. I know that before sailing on the RMS Titanic, he was a Saloon Steward on another White Star Line vessel the Adriatic. Along with his wife they lived in Southampton England. His wife Lily owned a sweat shop while taking care of their young son Edward. I do know that Arthur had a brother named Edward, but what happened to him is unknown to us at this point.
Edward at the age of 20 moved to London and became a very wealthy developer and designer. There he met this woman from Edinburough. They were married and later moved to Leithbridge Alberta, Canada. There, they had two children Edward Jr. and Christopher.
Christopher went on to marry and later have just 1 child, Christopher, Jr. He is now divorced and currently lives in Helena, MT.
Edward Jr. (aka Edward XVII - my Grandfather) later moved to Calgary Alberta, Canada where he met this Polish woman named Stephanie. They were married and had two children Brad and Todd. 2 years after Todd (my father) was born, they moved to Great Falls, MT where my Grandfather Edward XVII started up Elk River Concrete and became a self-made millionaire. Both Brad and Todd attened school in Montana all the way up to College.
Brad met and married a woman named Anette and had two daughters; Jennifer and Page. Currently Page is serving in the US Air Force and is stationed in Iraq on her second tour of duty.
Todd later met and married Sandy (my mother) Replogle in Billings, MT. Together they had two children; myself and my sister Ashley.
Currently, I have been married for 6 years with no children and my sister Ashley has been un-married with a child. His name is Cayden and he is 15 months old.
At the age of 18, I took upon the family heritage and became known as Edward XVIII. It's been a family tradition for centuries. Because my wife and I have opted NOT to have children and my sister is not having any more, the next Edward will be my Grandfather's Brother's Son Christopher. He will be Edward the XIX.
The Lawrence Family now spreads from WA state, over to parts of Montana, through Canada and spanning across Western Europe.
Currently, the last 4 Generations are still living.
Deborah Burroughs
Member
Hi I am the youngest daughter of George Yeowell, whose uncle was Arthur Lawrence, so my great uncle, I would love to find out anything about my great uncle as I do not have very much infomation about him or his family, it was good to read about you on this site. I am looking forward to hearing from you, kind regards Deborah Burroughs/ nee Yeowell, Norfolk England
Philip Davies
Member
Hello all,
Hope to be posting some updated pictures of Arthur's gravestone in a few weeks, as Ive now found the grave and as discussed with Chase in a private e-mail not on this site, I will be hoping to tidy up the 96 years worth of untended grave!! (in West Derby Cemetery) and would love to learn more about the family from Deborah and Chase.
Hope to be posting some updated pictures of Arthur's gravestone in a few weeks, as Ive now found the grave and as discussed with Chase in a private e-mail not on this site, I will be hoping to tidy up the 96 years worth of untended grave!! (in West Derby Cemetery) and would love to learn more about the family from Deborah and Chase.
John Knight
Member
Hi all,
I have an interest in Arthur and his family. One thing is puzzling me from the posts so far though. I keep reading about Arthur and his wife having a son. However, despite extensive research by myself, I have never found proof of this.
Could anyone enlighten me?
Regards,
John.
I have an interest in Arthur and his family. One thing is puzzling me from the posts so far though. I keep reading about Arthur and his wife having a son. However, despite extensive research by myself, I have never found proof of this.
Could anyone enlighten me?
Regards,
John.
Philip Davies
Member
Hi John,
Thanks for the post...Nice to hear of someone else with an interest in details regarding the Lawrence family!.. I would suggest that Brian Ticehurst at the top of these posts can perhaps enlighten both of us regarding Arthur's son Edward, as I have assumed both what Brian has provided and also Chase Lawrence's family history details that this was the case.
It would appear from what Chase has already provided to me by e-mail, that barely any records survive of Lily and Arthur's son Edward,but it seems that brother Edward Lawrence found wealth in Canada and that side of the family can be traced quite easily.
Our problem then is that Lily and son Edward's side of the family seem to be more difficult to trace!!. I have provided below a link for you of the current picture of the gravestone that I am going to tidy, and clean up as I have been to the local records office here in Liverpool and found the church records to identify the plot. The link to the picture I obtained had been taken and posted on the internet some time ago which Ive used to help me find the plot... West Derby Cemetery - Block C/E5 No.1106.(See Link)
http://www.revdma2.com/UK.html
Perhaps Brian can help us further, and I would also like to keep in contact and would like to know how your interest in the family started!? It is quite probable that my dad's father worked with Arthur Lawrence at some time on the Adriatic or Cedric as a steward, and also my connections with both Liverpool / Southampton and Alexandra Towing Co started my fascination with things Titanic over 30 years ago as a boy!
With best wishes and hope to hear on this site again soon.
Phil
Thanks for the post...Nice to hear of someone else with an interest in details regarding the Lawrence family!.. I would suggest that Brian Ticehurst at the top of these posts can perhaps enlighten both of us regarding Arthur's son Edward, as I have assumed both what Brian has provided and also Chase Lawrence's family history details that this was the case.
It would appear from what Chase has already provided to me by e-mail, that barely any records survive of Lily and Arthur's son Edward,but it seems that brother Edward Lawrence found wealth in Canada and that side of the family can be traced quite easily.
Our problem then is that Lily and son Edward's side of the family seem to be more difficult to trace!!. I have provided below a link for you of the current picture of the gravestone that I am going to tidy, and clean up as I have been to the local records office here in Liverpool and found the church records to identify the plot. The link to the picture I obtained had been taken and posted on the internet some time ago which Ive used to help me find the plot... West Derby Cemetery - Block C/E5 No.1106.(See Link)
http://www.revdma2.com/UK.html
Perhaps Brian can help us further, and I would also like to keep in contact and would like to know how your interest in the family started!? It is quite probable that my dad's father worked with Arthur Lawrence at some time on the Adriatic or Cedric as a steward, and also my connections with both Liverpool / Southampton and Alexandra Towing Co started my fascination with things Titanic over 30 years ago as a boy!
With best wishes and hope to hear on this site again soon.
Phil
Hello John and Philip
Reference Mr. Lawrence's wife and son.
Lily (Elizabeth) Lawrence is named on the gravestone at West Derby Cemetery so there can be no doubt about her.
The only concrete reference to the son is:
(Had a wife (Lily) and young son, wife ran a sweet shop at Rochford, Essex).
That came from a 1912 newspaper cutting (I think Rochford) about 25 years ago.
Unfortunately Lily (Elizabeth) Lawrence did not (or I cant find any trace of her doing so) make a claim on the Titanic Relief Fund - if she had her full name and the name of any dependent child would have been printed in the Relief Fund Book. I have checked and re-checked and also checked the copies of the Relief Fund Minute books that I have - all to no avail.
Most of those entitled to claim from the Funds did so but as it seems she was independent with her Sweet Shop she did not.
Also it seems from the report that the Masons looked after her and most probably provided for her and her son.
One lead could be is that you check the Masonic Society in Rochford Essex and ask them to check their records.
You never know what might turn up.
Best regards
Brian
Reference Mr. Lawrence's wife and son.
Lily (Elizabeth) Lawrence is named on the gravestone at West Derby Cemetery so there can be no doubt about her.
The only concrete reference to the son is:
(Had a wife (Lily) and young son, wife ran a sweet shop at Rochford, Essex).
That came from a 1912 newspaper cutting (I think Rochford) about 25 years ago.
Unfortunately Lily (Elizabeth) Lawrence did not (or I cant find any trace of her doing so) make a claim on the Titanic Relief Fund - if she had her full name and the name of any dependent child would have been printed in the Relief Fund Book. I have checked and re-checked and also checked the copies of the Relief Fund Minute books that I have - all to no avail.
Most of those entitled to claim from the Funds did so but as it seems she was independent with her Sweet Shop she did not.
Also it seems from the report that the Masons looked after her and most probably provided for her and her son.
One lead could be is that you check the Masonic Society in Rochford Essex and ask them to check their records.
You never know what might turn up.
Best regards
Brian
Philip Davies
Member
Brian,
As always thanks for your continued help, and I am hoping that once I have tended Arthur's grave and discovered some more details on his family (if possible!!), I hope to forward an article to BTS for addition in future ADB.
Thanks again, and best wishes
Phil
As always thanks for your continued help, and I am hoping that once I have tended Arthur's grave and discovered some more details on his family (if possible!!), I hope to forward an article to BTS for addition in future ADB.
Thanks again, and best wishes
Phil
John Knight
Member
Hello Brian and Philip.
Firstly, thank you Brian for your help. It is much appreciated.
About two years ago I set out to research Arthur and his immediate family. Part of that research was to try and find records of the birth of a child to Arthur and Elizabeth. Extensive searches were carried out and, if memory serves me right, two possible birth returns were found, maybe three. Either way I payed a visit to the records office and filled out the necessary forms and waited for the staff to see what they could find. All the returns showed very clearly that none of the 'possibles' were connected to Arthur and Elizabeth.
I had also previously obtained copies from the Southend Library of the local newspaper for 1912 and could find no mention of a son or daughter for the pair anywhere. This despite good coverage of the funeral etc.
If one day I can find definite evidence of a son or daughter I will endeavour to pass the details on to yourselves.
Philip,
thank you for supplying the link to the photograph. I knew where the grave was but had never seen it. So thank you.
My interest in researching Arthur and family sprang from the fact that for a time they lived and worked, in the sweet shop, in the town I was born which is near where I still live, where I went to secondary school and for a while were I worked.
I sadly had not given them much thought since I finished researching until this thread caught my eye and prompted me to ask my question.
Anyway, very best wishes to you both,
John.
Firstly, thank you Brian for your help. It is much appreciated.
About two years ago I set out to research Arthur and his immediate family. Part of that research was to try and find records of the birth of a child to Arthur and Elizabeth. Extensive searches were carried out and, if memory serves me right, two possible birth returns were found, maybe three. Either way I payed a visit to the records office and filled out the necessary forms and waited for the staff to see what they could find. All the returns showed very clearly that none of the 'possibles' were connected to Arthur and Elizabeth.
I had also previously obtained copies from the Southend Library of the local newspaper for 1912 and could find no mention of a son or daughter for the pair anywhere. This despite good coverage of the funeral etc.
If one day I can find definite evidence of a son or daughter I will endeavour to pass the details on to yourselves.
Philip,
thank you for supplying the link to the photograph. I knew where the grave was but had never seen it. So thank you.
My interest in researching Arthur and family sprang from the fact that for a time they lived and worked, in the sweet shop, in the town I was born which is near where I still live, where I went to secondary school and for a while were I worked.
I sadly had not given them much thought since I finished researching until this thread caught my eye and prompted me to ask my question.
Anyway, very best wishes to you both,
John.
Philip Davies
Member
Hi John,
Thanks for the quick response. When looking on the internet this morning, I notice that the 1911 census records are now available on-line from today and have registered for future use.(What a timely event!!!and am sure that this may help your research also?)
I'm sure that this census should help us both as it will contain details of the family living in Rochford at 1911.(Of course Arthur may well have been registered as living elsewhere due to his position of saloon steward, but perhaps the census can shed some light on this?)
I am also presuming that you live near or in Rochford and that you will know where the sweet shop was?..Just wondering if the building still exists? My curiosity is why Arthur is buried here in Liverpool, and if you look at the first thread of this post. then perhaps the brother "Charles" lived here, although in Chase Lawrence's family summary kindly given to us then no mention is made of Charles.... I can see how your research was quite confusing at the time!!! Its now got me totally lost!
Anyway, I will have a look at the census and to perhaps save more posts here, Ive noted below my personal e-mail address which I certainly dont mind you contacting me if you find (or I find!) any details from.
E-mail is : - [email protected]
The quest continues!
Phil
Thanks for the quick response. When looking on the internet this morning, I notice that the 1911 census records are now available on-line from today and have registered for future use.(What a timely event!!!and am sure that this may help your research also?)
I'm sure that this census should help us both as it will contain details of the family living in Rochford at 1911.(Of course Arthur may well have been registered as living elsewhere due to his position of saloon steward, but perhaps the census can shed some light on this?)
I am also presuming that you live near or in Rochford and that you will know where the sweet shop was?..Just wondering if the building still exists? My curiosity is why Arthur is buried here in Liverpool, and if you look at the first thread of this post. then perhaps the brother "Charles" lived here, although in Chase Lawrence's family summary kindly given to us then no mention is made of Charles.... I can see how your research was quite confusing at the time!!! Its now got me totally lost!
Anyway, I will have a look at the census and to perhaps save more posts here, Ive noted below my personal e-mail address which I certainly dont mind you contacting me if you find (or I find!) any details from.
E-mail is : - [email protected]
The quest continues!
Phil
Philip Davies
Member
Hi all
Just a quick post to confirm that I have followed up on the 1911 census and have found proof that Arthur and Elizabeth Lawrence as at 1911 had 1 son..John Arthur Lawrence who was 6 as at 1911. No mention of Edward or a Charles at this point, but perhaps between 2nd April 1911 and 15th April 1912, then Arthur and Lily had another son? I am now following up Arthur's family who I think Deborah may be able to help...i.e Arthur's sister or brothers who are relatives of hers.
I hope this information has helped you John with confirmation of at least 1 son to Arthur and Lily, but the 1911 census is still limited for our searches!
Best Wishes to all
Phil
Just a quick post to confirm that I have followed up on the 1911 census and have found proof that Arthur and Elizabeth Lawrence as at 1911 had 1 son..John Arthur Lawrence who was 6 as at 1911. No mention of Edward or a Charles at this point, but perhaps between 2nd April 1911 and 15th April 1912, then Arthur and Lily had another son? I am now following up Arthur's family who I think Deborah may be able to help...i.e Arthur's sister or brothers who are relatives of hers.
I hope this information has helped you John with confirmation of at least 1 son to Arthur and Lily, but the 1911 census is still limited for our searches!
Best Wishes to all
Phil
John Knight
Member
Hiya Phil,
I've taken a note of your e-mail, thank you.
I too found out today about their son via the census. Thanks to somebody who knows who she is.
I'm really glad that the question has finally been solved.
Also, yes, I do live very near to where Arthur and family used to and yes, the shop is still there, or rather, the building is.
Must go.
Regards,
John.
I've taken a note of your e-mail, thank you.
I too found out today about their son via the census. Thanks to somebody who knows who she is.
I'm really glad that the question has finally been solved.
Also, yes, I do live very near to where Arthur and family used to and yes, the shop is still there, or rather, the building is.
Must go.
Regards,
John.
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