Herbert G Harvey
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Marshall Garvey
Member
Hey everyone,
Anyone else here interested in/looking for info on engineer Herbert G. Harvey (outside of the biography here, of course)? I'm particularly looking for confirmation on his famous story with Fred Barrett and Jonathan Shepherd. Barrett said he saw Harvey skip saving himself to run back and help the injured Shepherd, but apparently it conflicts with other facts. Nonetheless, Harvey was exceptionally brave in what he did and sadly left behind a fiancee. I nearly cried reading his story...looking at his picture he seemed like a truly sweet and interesting character. God bless him and all his fellow engineers!
Thanks,
Marshall
Anyone else here interested in/looking for info on engineer Herbert G. Harvey (outside of the biography here, of course)? I'm particularly looking for confirmation on his famous story with Fred Barrett and Jonathan Shepherd. Barrett said he saw Harvey skip saving himself to run back and help the injured Shepherd, but apparently it conflicts with other facts. Nonetheless, Harvey was exceptionally brave in what he did and sadly left behind a fiancee. I nearly cried reading his story...looking at his picture he seemed like a truly sweet and interesting character. God bless him and all his fellow engineers!
Thanks,
Marshall
Tom McLeod
Member
I'd be interested in what became of Engineer Harvey and all of the engine staff best that can be determined. Chief Bell seems to be mentioned only occasionaly during the sinking, I've always wondered at least where he generally was. Some engineer's were picked up in recovery operations which seems to go against some of the theories that all of them were below deck during the later half of the sinking. There is Lightoller's references to seeing some of the engineering, pursers and other staff shortly before the final plunge which confuses me even more. Happy to swap updates that either of us might find as we see if any answers are our there.
Tom
Tom
Samuel Halpern
Member
Tom,
Some of what we know about what happened to the engineers comes from the testimony of greaser Fred Scott.
5685. When you were looking over the starboard side was there anybody near you? - Yes, all the engineers and firemen and all that.
5686. All the engineers? - Yes.
5687. Do you mean the officers? - Yes; the engineers that were on watch.
5688. Then, if I understand it aright, all the engineers had come up too? - They were all at the top.
5689. Did they come up when you came up? - Just afterwards, but some of them went up on the boat deck with me. They came up the ladder just behind me.
5690. When you say they were standing there, where were they standing? - Just against the electric crane aft.
5691. Will you indicate to us on the model where that is? - Yes, just about here (pointing on the model.)
5692. On the boat deck? - On the boat deck.
5693. That is the last you saw of them? - That is the last I saw of them.
5706. I want you to tell me with regard to the engineers you saw on the deck, when did they come up? - They came up just after I did.
5707. How long was that? - It was 20 minutes past 1 when I left the engine room.
5708. How long before you climbed down the falls to the boat? - I should say about half an hour.
5709. Were all the boats launched then? - No; all barring two.
5710. Which of the engineers did you see? Can you tell me their names? - Mr. Farquharson. I do not know the names of the others.
5711. How many of them did you see? - I should say there were about eight of them.
5712. There are 20 or more in the ship? - Yes.
5723. Did you get before you went up to the deck any summons to go on deck, or did you go on your own account? - No, we were ordered up out of the engine room.
5724. Who by? - The Senior Engineer, I think it was.
5725. Who was in charge of your section, the turbine room? - One of the juniors I think it was, about the sixth.
5726. What is his name; do you know? - No.
5727. Do you know the name of the engineer who ordered you out? - I think it was Mr. Farquharson.
5728. The gentleman you did see on deck afterwards? - Yes.
5729. And were the other engineers you saw on deck those belonging to your section, the turbine room? - They were doing six-hour watches then; some had come on at 8 to 2.
5730. But were the gentlemen that you saw, the engineers whom you saw, the engineers you had been connected with in the turbine room? - Yes.
5794. When you got the order, “All out of the engine room,” did you see any of the engineers coming up? - No, not at the time.
5795. Between the time when you left the engine room and the time that you say that you saw certain engineers on the boat deck, how much time had elapsed? - I should say about half an hour.
5831. How many engineers do you think there were? - Eight I saw.
5832. Officer engineers, I mean? - About eight I saw on deck.
5833. There are 36 I am told, all told? - I think so.
5834. So when you said you saw all the engineers you must have meant all the engineers that you knew? - Yes.
5835. You saw only eight of them? - I saw eight of them.
5836. Out of 36? - Yes.
Some of what we know about what happened to the engineers comes from the testimony of greaser Fred Scott.
5685. When you were looking over the starboard side was there anybody near you? - Yes, all the engineers and firemen and all that.
5686. All the engineers? - Yes.
5687. Do you mean the officers? - Yes; the engineers that were on watch.
5688. Then, if I understand it aright, all the engineers had come up too? - They were all at the top.
5689. Did they come up when you came up? - Just afterwards, but some of them went up on the boat deck with me. They came up the ladder just behind me.
5690. When you say they were standing there, where were they standing? - Just against the electric crane aft.
5691. Will you indicate to us on the model where that is? - Yes, just about here (pointing on the model.)
5692. On the boat deck? - On the boat deck.
5693. That is the last you saw of them? - That is the last I saw of them.
5706. I want you to tell me with regard to the engineers you saw on the deck, when did they come up? - They came up just after I did.
5707. How long was that? - It was 20 minutes past 1 when I left the engine room.
5708. How long before you climbed down the falls to the boat? - I should say about half an hour.
5709. Were all the boats launched then? - No; all barring two.
5710. Which of the engineers did you see? Can you tell me their names? - Mr. Farquharson. I do not know the names of the others.
5711. How many of them did you see? - I should say there were about eight of them.
5712. There are 20 or more in the ship? - Yes.
5723. Did you get before you went up to the deck any summons to go on deck, or did you go on your own account? - No, we were ordered up out of the engine room.
5724. Who by? - The Senior Engineer, I think it was.
5725. Who was in charge of your section, the turbine room? - One of the juniors I think it was, about the sixth.
5726. What is his name; do you know? - No.
5727. Do you know the name of the engineer who ordered you out? - I think it was Mr. Farquharson.
5728. The gentleman you did see on deck afterwards? - Yes.
5729. And were the other engineers you saw on deck those belonging to your section, the turbine room? - They were doing six-hour watches then; some had come on at 8 to 2.
5730. But were the gentlemen that you saw, the engineers whom you saw, the engineers you had been connected with in the turbine room? - Yes.
5794. When you got the order, “All out of the engine room,” did you see any of the engineers coming up? - No, not at the time.
5795. Between the time when you left the engine room and the time that you say that you saw certain engineers on the boat deck, how much time had elapsed? - I should say about half an hour.
5831. How many engineers do you think there were? - Eight I saw.
5832. Officer engineers, I mean? - About eight I saw on deck.
5833. There are 36 I am told, all told? - I think so.
5834. So when you said you saw all the engineers you must have meant all the engineers that you knew? - Yes.
5835. You saw only eight of them? - I saw eight of them.
5836. Out of 36? - Yes.
Tom McLeod
Member
Thank you Sam
I've got large chunks of both inquiries in various books. I know there is a great site on-line with all the data. I should try to buy some book forms of the inquires, which would make great references. I know I've often found myself in the midst of some part of an inquiry and run across some useful information that is often pondered by others who haven't seen such. On the to do list! From what I have read it strikes me that order on the ship from Captain through the ranks for the deck officers and also through the structure of the Engineering Department; that there was a cool, calm, but highly understood pecking order. The officers under normal circumstances would go about their duties seemingly very relaxed, yet very efficient. I would imagine that until the last moments of the sinking, where the situation was very out of control because the ship was leaving them, that this type of rank and structure was still followed.I would imagine if such is/was the case then the Senior Deck officers felt pretty bound to their duties and would have been looking to release the junior officers when chances came up. Perhaps the same was true in the engine room. The senior officers continued to stay with the ship as long as possible, but would send people like Barret or other junior Engineer's up-top when space and time was running thin. All part of a code of conduct if you will. For all I know such codes of conduct still exist on liners of all types. Does such sound right or am I blending my understanding of fact with personal theories too much?
Tom
I've got large chunks of both inquiries in various books. I know there is a great site on-line with all the data. I should try to buy some book forms of the inquires, which would make great references. I know I've often found myself in the midst of some part of an inquiry and run across some useful information that is often pondered by others who haven't seen such. On the to do list! From what I have read it strikes me that order on the ship from Captain through the ranks for the deck officers and also through the structure of the Engineering Department; that there was a cool, calm, but highly understood pecking order. The officers under normal circumstances would go about their duties seemingly very relaxed, yet very efficient. I would imagine that until the last moments of the sinking, where the situation was very out of control because the ship was leaving them, that this type of rank and structure was still followed.I would imagine if such is/was the case then the Senior Deck officers felt pretty bound to their duties and would have been looking to release the junior officers when chances came up. Perhaps the same was true in the engine room. The senior officers continued to stay with the ship as long as possible, but would send people like Barret or other junior Engineer's up-top when space and time was running thin. All part of a code of conduct if you will. For all I know such codes of conduct still exist on liners of all types. Does such sound right or am I blending my understanding of fact with personal theories too much?
Tom
Samuel Halpern
Member
>>Does such sound right? <<
Pretty much.
Pretty much.
Tom McLeod
Member
Thanks Sam,
Just information such as that is pretty important in understanding what the crew was supposed to do.
Appreciate it-Tom
Just information such as that is pretty important in understanding what the crew was supposed to do.
Appreciate it-Tom