Jack Thayer suicide or

[Martha Fasoulas]

Dear all,

I am keen to find any information or links to past discussions on this subject. I have only read briefly on a past discussions, some references made regarding Jack Thayer's death being ruled a suicide.

From what I understand it has been suggested that it may have been a staged suicide. Apparently there is a link to his autopsy report on this site, which I can not find.

Can anyone help with any info?

Thanks
Martha

 

[Inger Sheil]

Try this thread, Martha, for previous discussions on this topic...and then jump in with your own suggestions, theories, comments and questions!

https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/discus/messages/5811/27665.html

 

[Martha Fasoulas]

Thank you very much Inger the information was great. I am still studying a lot of the theories and suggestions on this board which I found more valuable and likely than the information in most books!

I hope to contribute some insight when I am a little more confidence with the info I have.

Thanks again Inger I really appreciate it

 

[Kyrila Scully]

Martha, I want to commend you for your appreciation of Inger's assistance with your query. Very often people demand information from us (without first checking the information already available on this website) with little regard for the time it takes us to research and respond to their questions, and then never offer any thanks at all. It's refreshing and encouraging when someone thoughtful like yourself takes the time to acknowledge the help received. I hope others will follow your example. We look forward to further posts from you.

Kyrila

 

[Geoff Whitfield]

Martha - I think we are going to like you here! and I endorse Kyrila's comments. I'm still smarting over the actions of a certain "person" who obtained information from me which now appears on a Web site under their name.
You know who you are - be warned - a Whitfield annoyed is not a pleasant sight (neither is a happy one but that's another story!)

Geoff

 

[Martha Fasoulas]

G'day!

What a wonderful welcome from my heros from this board! Geoff, you are scaring me already

your information is for my mind only! Kyrila, thank you for your kind words...

I am grateful for your support and believe me I understand the amount of effort in research you all put in to answer the many questions...I will read before I speak however sometimes forgive me if I seem to rush into anything I haven't properly researched. With the volume of info on the board I am learning to navigate through it all! If only they knew then just how much we have all been able to learn now, things would have been very different... Your research is invaluable to people such as myself and I will always respect that.

In terms of Jack Thayer, I have read the threads posted by Inger and the evidence relating to his suicide is relatively inconclusive. There are favourable arguements for both theories on his death, yet I tend to believe and agree with Michael Standart and more that while the evidence is questionable, 60 years after the fact would be too difficult to investigate and would be drenched with circumstantial evidence....although tempting!

All my best

Martha

 

[Inger Sheil]

Seconding Geoff and Kyrila's remarks here, Martha. Many of the board's denizens have become accustomed to being treated rather like reference volumes on a shelf - it's a pleasure to see someone jump aboard who not only has a fresh approach and the initiative to seek out the data, but who also acknowledges the help of others.

FWIW, although I haven't looked into the Thayer material other than the material and interesting speculation/observations posted here, I think you're right - barring the discovery of something new and startling, the original verdict will have to stand.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>yet I tend to believe and agree with Michael Standart and more that while the evidence is questionable, 60 years after the fact would be too difficult to investigate and would be drenched with circumstantial evidence....although tempting! <<

All too true I'm afraid. Since all of the involved principles are likely secure in their final resting places, trying to chat them up would only get you some strange looks and perhaps a trip to a padded cell. The time to really investigate this would have been when it all went down.

Of course, if all this really was a suicide (Where the man reported slashed his throat and his wrists...and somehow escaped being noticed while in a car in a public spot for nearly 40 hours!) then it's all a moot point.

If it was murder, then the perp got away with it clean.

 

[Jim Kalafus]

Hi, Michael: Was just reading through several accounts of the unsolved June 1949 murder of Louise Springer in Los Angeles (quite a good mystery) in which her body remained for three days on the seat of her car in a busy residential neighborhood with no one noticing- including, as it turned out, several people who witnessed the homicide but were not curious enough to look into the car. So, 'though it seems odd that no one noticed Jack for 40 hours, apparently it is less improbable than it comes across. The wrist cutting/ throat slashing method of suicide is also more common than one would expect. My dad worked several such (homicide officer) over the years, and was able to give rather....graphic testimony as to why it infinitetly more likely to have been a suicide than a murder.

 

[Kyrila Scully]

Well, I live in West Palm Beach and the doctor listed on the death certificate is still listed in the phone book as still being in practice. However I doubt he will be able to shed any light because of the Hypocratic Oath. It might be worth contacting him. If anyone wants to do that, I'll be happy to supply the phone number. Send me a private email.

Kyrila

 

[Martha Fasoulas]

G'day all

Thanks very much for all your info. Jim those were some very interesting points to think about. Thanks for your help :0)

Jack would have to have been suffering from a sever period of depression in order to make the choice to take his own life. From a psychology point of view, suicide is by no means a product of depression from past events in a person's life, but many cases show its prevalence being triggered by a single moment of anger, fear and emotion. I say this because many have argued that the death of Jack's son as well as mother on the 32nd anniversary of Titanic's demise, were the main triggers for his apparent suicide. Unfortuntately,it is likely we will never know.

What struck a chord with me on this one, is that from all the material I have read, he was certainly considered to be a very well liked man, successful and intelligent. It is very sad end for such a wonderful person who it seems had already endured enough in his life.

Perhaps the contact in WPB would be worth trying however after all this time you would have to wonder how accurate his recollections of the death would be, and how well the records have been kept.

Just must two cents

Take care
Martha

 

[Jan Wood]

This is my very first post on the board. However I have been avidly reading all your views, comments and research for weeks.

I would like to say thank you to you all for such a valuable and very interesting resource. I am amazed at the wealth of information here, given freely with good debate.

Your knowledge and dedication simply amazes me

Thank you

)

Jan

 

[Christophe Damore]

Hello All!

I have no clue whether this thread has died a quiet death (God...excuse me using that cliche on this particular thread) but I wanted to add a few thoughts to ponder and see if anyone out there feels the same way or has any additional information...

In regards to Bob Cruise's 7/16/02 post:

"In all the suicides I have ever heard about, I have yet to hear of one where a person slashes their own throat along with their wrists (accomplishing one after the other takes quite a bit of effort). My guess is that Thayer's throat was slashed BEFORE the wrists - and that the wrists were slashed to make foul play look more like a suicide."

Interesting theory, BUT here is something you should consider...slitting one's wrists is an extremely painful (And unless one does it correctly) an extremely slow way to die. My guess is that Jack Thayer initially slit his wrists, and after a while of waiting moved towards his throat to speed things along a bit (Believe it or not, this does happen more often than one would think and usually more with men than women). If he did indeed start by slitting his wrists, the slit to his throat probably wasn't quite deep, but enough to send him into shock and unconsciousness. Unless he had severed the tendons by the initial cuts, he would have had enough strength and motivation to go towards his throat. Incidentally, does anyone know if he was right or left handed?

If anyone could get ahold of his full autopsy report or point me in the direction to obtain one (I've never done anything like that before...I'm a bit unsure if it can even be done) the marks and deepness of the cuts would be the telltale signs. Usually anyone who slits his wrists will have one or two initial testing lines before the deep cut.

As to the question regarding "amnesia" a few days before his death...Disassociative fugue states/periods of amnesia, psychic numbing and depersonalization are all common features of PTSD (Refer to the DSM-IV-R) and believe me, will occur at the drop of hat and usually under periods of extreme duress.

I'm about 99% sure he did commit suicide due to PTSD after some type of extreme stressor, but I'd like to see a full autopsy report just to nail down that extra 1%.

-Chris-