Jack Thayer's full name

[Steve Arnold]

Ever since first reading A Night to Remember well over thirty years ago, Jack Thayer has been one of my favorite passengers. I have always seen his name listed either as John B. Thayer Jr., or as John Borland Thayer Jr., but always with "Jr." When re-reading his page on this site a few days ago, I noticed a picture of his gravestone had been added and on the stone he was listed as John B. Thayer III.

I know this is a minor, unimportant detail, but can anyone explain the descrepancy? Was he "Jr." or "The Third?"

 

[Brian Meister]

Mr Arnold,

Jack Thayer was John Borland Thayer III as
his father and grandfather bore the name before
him. When Jack's grandfather died on 15 August
1904, Jack's father then dropped the "junior"
and Jack became junior. The suffixes change
customarily at the death of an elder, so I'm
told.

Hope this helps.

Brian Meister

 

[Steve Arnold]

Makes perfect sense! Thank you!

 

[M. Thayer III]

Brian,

It seems that changing the suffixes was more of a custom in the past than it is today.I for one have not, nor do I plan on changing my "Thayer III" name as I am the third.

I could have named my son the IV but my wife and I decided together to name him something different.By the way we decided to name him Justin (not John or Jack) B. Thayer.

It seems as if "Thayer" and "Titanic" go hand and hand. Justin is thirteen years old and continues to field questions about his name and the Titanic.

Regards,
M. Thayer III

 

[Sam]

How many siblings did Jack Thayer have ????
was he the first sibling to die ??
SAM

 

[Phillip Gowan]

Jack Thayer had two sisters, Pauline and Margaret (Peggy) and a brother Frederic. Jack died first, then Frederick, then Margaret and Pauline died last.

Jack and Margaret both committed suicide while Fred and Pauline died of natural causes.

Phillip Gowan

 

[Sam]

Thanks for the information Phil when and why did Margaret commit suicide????
SAM

 

[Phillip Gowan]

Hi Sam,
I'm at work and don't have Margaret's exact dates but believe the year was 1962. Her husband held a high ranking post in the Eisenhower administration but got into serious trouble and had to resign under a cloud of suspicion. He died not too long afterwards of natural causes but Margaret was very despondent over his death and leaped from her upper-story apartment balcony.

Phillip

 

[Sam]

Thanks for the info Philip, they seem a sad family thank god there mother was not still alive
when the suicides happened
SAM

 

[Phillip Gowan]

Sam,
This afternoon I had a chance to look up the exact information on the Thayer siblings:

Frederick Morris Thayer, born July 17, 1896, married Eliza Talbott on October 27, 1923 and had 5 children (Frederick Morris Jr., Marian, Harry E., Thurston H., and Nelson S.). He was an investment banker and World War I vet. He died on November 16, 1956.

Margaret (Peggy) Thayer, born in 1898, married Harold Elstner Talbott on August 11, 1925 and had four children, daughters Margaret and Pauline, and twin sons, John Thayer Talbott and Harold E. Talbott, III. Harold E. Talbott was Secretary of the Air Force during the Eisenhower administration. He resigned that post after an investigation by the U.S. Senate into his activities in behalf of a New York engineering firm in which he was a partner. He then died of a heart attack on March 2, 1957 while visiting friends in Palm Beach, Florida. His wife then lived in a 12th Floor Fifth Avenue apartment in Manhattan where she became increasingly prone to depression and finally jumped from her balcony in 1960.

Pauline Thayer was born in 1901 and married Henry Hoffman Dolan. They had three children, Henry, Jr., Thayer, and Peggy. She was a leading Philadelphia area golfer and made her home in Hobe Sound, Florida after 1950. She died there on March 2, 1981 and was the last of the four Thayer children.

(Actually there was another sibling who died in infancy, unnamed, and is buried beside his parents).

Frederick Morris Thayer's wife, Eliza, died on November 22, 1990 and was the last surviving in-law of the Thayer children.

I hope some of the above was helpful.

Phillip

 

[Sam]

Thanks a lot Phil thats great alot of info there
I don't want to take up any more of your time but what about there Mother Marian I've read her biography on here but I would be intrested to here about her life after the Titanic . Was she still wealthy ,? did she have a nice house and expensive jewels etc? and how and were did she die ? did she have her children around her???
Sam

 

[Phillip Gowan]

Hi Sam,
Marian Longstreth Morris Thayer was born November 9, 1872 to Frederick Wister Morris and Elizabeth Flower Paul, both representatives of old Philadelphia moneyed families. She never remarried after Titanic and her husband and parents left her very well off. She died in Haverford, Pennsylvania on April 14, 1944 (on the 32nd anniversary of striking the iceberg) of heart failure brought on by arteriosclerotic heart disease and was buried in the Thayer family plot at Church of the Redeemer Cemetery in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania.

Her Last Will and Testament (4 pages long) left her estate to her four children and did not mention as many specifics as one might wish to know--but she does speak of real estate, securities, and stocks and bonds. The Will also calls for bequests to her servants Mary Hillier and Margaret Fleming. Margaret Fleming was traveling with the Thayer family on Titanic--but she would receive no bequest as she died before Mrs. Thayer. Mrs. Thayer also requested that "some small sum" be given to any other servants who had been in her employ for a period of 5 years prior to her death.

This is from the Philadelphia Inquirer of April 15, 1944, page 16:

Mrs. John B. Thayer

Mrs. John B. Thayer, widow of John B. Thayer, prominent Philadelphian and Pennsylvania Railroad official, died yesterday on the 32nd anniversary of her husband's death in the Titanic disaster. She was 72.

When the Titanic sunk on April 14, 1912, off Newfoundland after striking an iceberg, her husband, 2nd vice president and director of the Pennsylvania Railroad, was carried to his death, but Mrs. Thayer and her son, John B. Thayer, Jr., were rescued in a lifeboat.

Mrs. Thayer was the daughter of the late Frederick Wister Morris, and lived in Cheswold Lane, Haverford. She had been ill a year. Surviving, besides John, are another son, Frederick M., of Newtown Square, and two daughters, Mrs. H. Hoffman Dolan, of Haverford, and Mrs. H. E. Talbott, Jr., of New York. Funeral services will be held at 5 P.M. Monday at the Church of the Redeemer, Bryn Mawr.

I hope that helps with some of the items you were interested in.

Phillip

 

[Phillip Gowan]

Sam,
Since you're interested in the Thayer family jewels, here's an excerpt from Lois (Jack's wife) Thayer's 13 page Will:

To my daughter, LOIS THAYER FRAZIER, my string of eighty-five pearls and my ring of twenty-seven square diamonds (weighing approximately two carats) set in a platinum wedding band.

To my daughter, PAULINE THAYER MAGUIRE, my platinum parrot brooch with pave rose diamonds and black onyx; my platinum stork brooch with pave rose diamonds (weighing approximately three carats total) in platinum wedding band.

To my daughter, JULIE THAYER ISELIN, my ring of twenty-five square French cut diamonds (weighing approximately two carats) in platinum wedding band.

To my daughter-in-law, CHARLOTTE T. THAYER, my diamond horseshoe brooch of forty-seven stones.

To my granddaughter, LOIS FRAZIER WARDWELL, my diamond bow knot bar pin.

To my granddaughter, EMILY THAYER, my sapphire and diamond circle brooch of twenty-four stones.

Lots of other good detail in this will with attached codicils.

Phillip

 

[DHuffaker]

David Huffaker:

Phillip : Do you happen to have the wedding date and place for John B.Thayer and Marian Morris?

 

[Sam]

Thanks for the brilliant information Phil thats great , I suppose Marian also lost a lot of her Jewels when the Titanic went down do you think??
SAM
PS I know this a completely different subject but did Mrs Adolf Dyker ever find her handbag with her jewellery in ???? or is that another Titanic mystery???