The Penasco mystery

Queridos amigos: queria compartir una información que escuche en un documental no hace mucho tiempo. Como todos saven los Peñasco se enconraban en su viaje de bodas cuando decidieron emabracar, sin permiso, en el Titanic... Luego toda la historia conocida la cual incluye una declaración de la Condesa de Roth.
Pero la información que yo desconocia es que por aquellas años, en España, una mujer no podia volver a contraer matrimonio a causa de la ausencia del cuerpo. Y justamente el cuerpo de Victor no llego al puerto de Halifax en ninguna emabarcación; Por ello la opulenta familia Peñasco debio comprar un cadaver y realizar una identificación falsa para evitarle a la joven Josefa años de dolor y soledad.
Esa era la informacií²n que queria compartir y preguntar si alguien tenia conocimiento de ella.
Me disculpo por escribir este texto en castellano pero como ustedes saven mi ingles no es muy fluido.
Saludos muy codiales.
 
Mmmmmm...if we have somebody here fluant in reading and writing Spanish, perhaps that person would be so kind as to translate the above. Hopefully then, Mauro can have a better shot at getting whatever information he's looking for.
 
Hello Mauro.

I've had a go with 'Babel Fish' at translating your post, as it seems very interesting. The following is that site's attempt:
quote:

Dear friends: queria to share one informacií²n that listens not long ago in documentary a time. As all saven the Rocky crag is enconraban in their trip of weddings when they decided to emabracar, without permission, in the Titanic... Soon all the well-known history which includes one declaracií²n of Countess de Roth. But informacií²n that I desconocia is that by those years, in Spain, a woman podia not to return to contract marriage because of the absence of the body. And exactly the body of Victor I do not arrive at the port from Halifax in any emabarcacií²n; For that reason the opulent family Rocky crag debio to buy to cadaver and to make one identificacií²n false to avoid to the Josefa young person years to him of pain and solitude. That was informacií²n that queria to share and to ask if somebody tapeworm knowledge of her. I apologize to write this text in Castilian but as you saven my ingles is not very fluid.
If anyone can improve on Babel Fish's attempt, please have a go.​
 
So, it was a Rocky crag that enconrabaned the Titanic?

Vindication for Marmaduke Collins!

[I am afraid the wider Penasco mystery remains, for me at least.]
 
Mauro is asking if anyone has knowledge of this story of the Penasco ("Rocky crag") family buying a male cadaver to impersonate Victor's body since "widows" in Spain at that time were not allowed to remarry without proving the death of the husband, which could not be proved without a tapeworm, I mean body.

I put the text into another search engine and it came up with this for Mauro's last paragraph:

"I excuse myself for writing this text in Spaniard but as you saven my groins very is not flowed."

Check for yourself on:

http://ets.freetranslation.com/
 
I am currently re-reading Walter Lord's ANTR and there is a relevant paragraph which presumably has some factual basis, I quote:-

"On the fringe of the crowd stood a young Spanish honeymoon couple. Senor Victor de Satode Penasco was just eighteen years old and his bride only seventeen. Neither could understand English. As they watched in bewilderment, the Countess of Rothes spied them and hurried over. A few hurried words in French...then Senor Penasco delivered his bride to the Countess's care and stepped back into the shadows"

Hope this is of help.
 
The story is on page 62 of Titanic: Women and Children First.

As Mauro says, Mrs Peñasco couldn't inherit her late husband's considerable estate without definite evidence in the form of his body. With the connivance of Señor Peñasco's mother, the Spanish Vice Consul in Canada managed to acquire a Death Certificate. As I read it, no body was really produced, but the paperwork shows that Señor Peñasco was buried in Fairview. Money talks !
 
That about says it Dave! Word for word though:


Dear Friends, I wanted to share some information that I overheard in a documentary not too long ago. As everyone knows, the Penascos were on their honeymoon (wedding trip) when they decided to embark on Titanic -without permission. (sin permiso can also mean without documentation so that might be a whole other problem). Later, the entire well-known story was revealed in an account by the Countess of Rothes. But the detail of information I was not recalling was that for many years, in Spain, a (widowed)wife could not upset the legal contract of marriage without the presence of a body of the spouse. And this was justifiably the case, as no body of Victor came into Halifax or was picked up by any boat. For the extremely wealthy Penasco family to have to resort to buying a cadaver and taking part in a fraudulent identification was a shame which caused the young Josefa years of sorrow and solitude. So, this is what I wanted to share, and also to ask if anybody here has any more information about her. Please excuse me for writing these lines in Castillian, but as you know, my English is not very fluid! Cordially,
 
Having mulled this over awhile, maybe the actions taken were not as superficial as money. I imagine the match may well have been arranged, as were many marriage contracts among wealthy families. But then again, maybe she adored Victor. When I think of what I knew at 17, it must have been sheer terror that night on deck for what amounts to not much more than a child involved. I can imagine the despair of the Penasco parents, to whom in those days a son was so very important. No doubt they would have every sympathy for their new daughter-in-law, widowed so young, and in the heart-wrenching scenario of the sinking. Surely they knew she would wish to remarry, and that the impediment of the law's requirements would keep her from doing so. You can almost hear the dialogue in that household. For the measure which was taken at last, it must have cost the family plenty -in reputation more than money. And in those days appearances mattered more than wealth. I have been caught in coup d'etat in Greece in 1973, with tanks rolling down the street, gunfire all around and screaming mobs racing around speaking Greek. It gave all new meaning to "it was all Greek to me". To be in a life-threatening situation and not to know the language or what is happening around one is an unbelievably frightening situation. It is probably about the same feeling as the Penascos and so many others experienced that night. This is a topic Cameron might well have done more to portray-and Josefa and Victor's story surely had all the components of the Rose-Jack fabrication. I believe here in the States it is still a seven-year waiting period before a spouse can be declared legally dead in similar circumstances.
 
Thanks for informacií²n and the made translations. I do not criticize the position that volume the family, single queria to saver if it were certain.
A very warm greeting.
 
Please, is saBer, with B not wit V, my god!!!

The Peñasco's travelled abroad the Titanic without the permission of Victor's mother. Doña Purificación Castellana Moreno allowed them to travel around Europe when they started their honeymoon at the end of 1910, they married in December 8 of 1910( so imaging what a long honeymoon , they spent 111 millions pesetas, a bit less than a 1€ million. Yes, they were very rich, while the rest of Spain were very poor)The problem was Victor's mother, she didn't want they to travel by ship. We don't know why, maybe she was afraid of them...anyway, they lied to her so they told their butler to send postcards from Paris to Madrid in order to make she believe that her son and his wife where at the french capital.This way they could go to NY and then to la Havana freely . You know the rest.

I have a piece of newspaper where it is all the story, even the testimony of Fermina, the Peñasco's maid, but I don`t know how to share wit you. It was published when James Cameron release Titanic. The problem is that it write all in Spanish and I'm very bad in translating into English so you will need a translator.
 
Victor Peñasco, a wealthy Spanish gentleman of independent means, was 24 when he lost his life on the Titanic. He was something of a dandy and one item of his wardrobe, a silk smoking jacket, was kept by his family after his death giving some idea of his exquisite taste. It was not with him when he boarded the Titanic which explains its survival in pristine condition.

Photographs of him from before his last voyage show an elegant young man in natty day wear. He paired a black morning coat with a light coloured double breasted waistcoat with wide lapels, a plain dark tie and a discreet pocket square. Less formal was a three piece blue lounge suit that would not look out of place today. Three piece suits would have been de rigour for the well dressed man of 1912. Victor Peñasco had a single breasted waistcoat without lapels with his blue lounge suit but what makes it different from a modern waistcoat is that he has a slip attached, a small white strip of stiff cotton, often marcella, that buttons into the neckline of the waistcoat to give the impression of a second vest. A white handkerchief is tucked into his top jacket pocket. His shirt collar is rounded and he wears a plain blue knitted tie. Cufflinks peak out from his shirt sleeves. His other accessories were a derby hat, gloves and cane. A gentleman would always wear a hat when outdoors. Victor Peñasco was obviously a dapper young man keen to follow the latest fashion and an aficionado of fine tailoring. It was said that he had perfected his English on visits to his London tailors.

Accounts of his last hours on Titanic depict him wearing a fashionable tuxedo suit. He had worn this to dinner on the last evening and was unbuttoning the jacket at the time of the collision only to put his dinner jacket back on to go to find out what was happening and then escort his wife and her maid to a lifeboat. His body was never recovered but he was last seen wearing his immaculate tuxedo. He and his wife were noted by some of the other passengers for their particularly elegant appearance.

The one piece of his wardrobe to have survived was a pristine silk smoking suit which he had had tailored for him in Paris. This would have been worn in the evening in private or in company with friends. The idea was that the jacket would have protected his evening clothes from the smell of tobacco, which would be absorbed by the fabric, when he was smoking. In French the word for tuxedo le smoking, and in Spanish esmoquin, is the same as for smoking jacket. Peñasco‘s suit was made of silk in tuxedo style with gold facings and a gold shawl collar. The stripes on the trousers were similarly of gold. The whole ensemble is striking, but would have felt not only very luxurious but comfortable.

No claim was ever made for Victor Penasco’s lost possessions so we do not know exactly what clothes were in his luggage, but other claims from young men of similar age, such as Lucian Smith and John Snyder, would suggest that he would have travelled with at least seven or eight lounge suits, evening dress, tuxedos, dozens of shirts, ties, underclothes, overcoats for day and evening wear and accessories. As an athlete in his younger days, Victor may have also had clothes suitable for sport and the gymnasium with him, though other photographs from liners of the tie show young men on mechanical horses wearing their suits.

Perhaps this particular young man was more fastidious about his appearance than many of his contemporaries and had the wealth to enjoy the best and indulge his taste, but he does give some idea of what a fashionable young man in his 20s would have worn or aspired to wear at the time.
 
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As Mauro says, Mrs Peñasco couldn't inherit her late husband's considerable estate without definite evidence in the form of his body. With the connivance of Señor Peñasco's mother, the Spanish Vice Consul in Canada managed to acquire a Death Certificate. As I read it, no body was really produced, but the paperwork shows that Señor Peñasco was buried in Fairview. Money talks !
Not only could Maria Josefa, Victor Penasco's Titanic widow, not be able to inherit his estate without a body, she apparently could not remarry for another 20 years! If those were the existing laws of the Spanish Government at the time, the two parts seem at odds with each other. If Maria Josefa was not allowed to remarry because her husband could not be proven to be dead without a body present, then she was officially still Mrs Victor Penaco y Castellana. That in turn should have allowed her rights to her husbands property without needing to 'inherit' them?

As I have posted in another thread, Victor's mother Purificacion, a relative of the then Spanish President Canalejas, arranged to "buy" an as yet unidentified body of a young man and claimed that it was the remains of her son Victor. A Death Certificate was therefore issued and I assume that Maria Josefa got her inheritence; she certainly remarried a Baron a few years later, had 3 children from him and lived to her 80s.

According to that story, the body identified as Victor Penasco is supposedly buried at Fairview Lawn Cemetery in Halifax. I would like to know under what name and epitaph? There is also a Memorial for Victor in his former wife's Mausoleum in Madrid according to ET.
 
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If it is true then maybe one of the "unknown" labled grave markers after the deceased served their purpose. I kind of doubt this story that he would have been buried there if he was truly identified. My understanding is that there are very few wealthly first class passengers buried there as they had the means to have the bodies shipped home to be buried there. From what I understand the family of him was very well off. Cheers.
 
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