David Livshin

[Encyclopedia Titanica]

David Livshin (Abraham Harmer) : Titanic Victim

Biography of David Livshin : Titanic Victim

www.encyclopedia-titanica.org

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Livshin was one of the more interesting passengers on board the Titanic with a few unexplained facts about his passage. He was a Jewish man of Latvian-Russian descent and was living and working as a watchmaker in Manchester, England when he decided to emigrate to Canada. He boarded the Titanic in Southampton as a Third Class passenger with Montreal as his destination, leaving behind his pregnant young wife to whom he intended to send for once he settled in Canada. For some reason unknown to anyone, he was travelling under the name of Abraham Harmer, a name completely unknown to his wife or anyone else in his circles.

Very little is known about his activity on board the Titanic and he must have jumped into the water quite late in the sinking.

The unconscious fireman John Thompson (was David Livshin another ?)

Not sure what made you think that Seumas, but I'd be grateful to know the source. Here on his ET bio, it was speculated that he was picked-up from the sea by Lifeboat #14, which later rescued the ragged survivors from Collapsible A of course. But I have not seen any mention that Livshin/Harmer himself was on #A at any time. The only reference about him that I have found so far is in George Behe's On Board RMS Titanic: Memories from a Maiden Voyage, in which he is mentioned (as Harmer) as one of the men picked-up from the sea in Caroline Bonnell's account. The same account says that he was one of the 4 men who died on board the Carpathia, the others being William Hoyt (picked-up by Lifeboat #14), AB William Lyons and Steward Sidney Siebert (both picked up by Lifeboat #4).

One of the references quoted for Livshin/Harmer on ET is Peter-Boyd Smith's book Titanic: From Rare Historical Reports, a book that I have in India and should be able to check out in 3 weeks. If anyone knows of other sources, I request them to share them with us please.

 

[Seumas]

Livshin was one of the more interesting passengers on board the Titanic with a few unexplained facts about his passage. He was a Jewish man of Latvian-Russian descent and was living and working as a watchmaker in Manchester, England when he decided to emigrate to Canada. He boarded the Titanic in Southampton as a Third Class passenger with Montreal as his destination, leaving behind his pregnant young wife to whom he intended to send for once he settled in Canada. For some reason unknown to anyone, he was travelling under the name of Abraham Harmer, a name completely unknown to his wife or anyone else in his circles.

Very little is known about his activity on board the Titanic and he must have jumped into the water quite late in the sinking.


Not sure what made you think that Seumas, but I'd be grateful to know the source. Here on his ET bio, it was speculated that he was picked-up from the sea by Lifeboat #14, which later rescued the ragged survivors from Collapsible A of course. But I have not seen any mention that Livshin/Harmer himself was on #A at any time. The only reference about him that I have found so far is in George Behe's On Board RMS Titanic: Memories from a Maiden Voyage, in which he is mentioned (as Harmer) as one of the men picked-up from the sea in Caroline Bonnell's account. The same account says that he was one of the 4 men who died on board the Carpathia, the others being William Hoyt (picked-up by Lifeboat #14), AB William Lyons and Steward Sidney Siebert (both picked up by Lifeboat #4).

One of the references quoted for Livshin/Harmer on ET is Peter-Boyd Smith's book Titanic: From Rare Historical Reports, a book that I have in India and should be able to check out in 3 weeks. If anyone knows of other sources, I request them to share them with us please.

I don't think there has ever been any agreement on how Livshin got to Boat No. Fourteen.

I've read of him placed in Collapsible A, Collapsible B and pulled from the water by Boat Fourteen.

Regarding Livshin's background, there is still a fair sized Jewish community in Manchester and although it's a long shot, the local Jewish heritage groups may know about Livshin's family or indeed just who the real Mr Harmer was.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I've read of him placed in Collapsible A, Collapsible B and pulled from the water by Boat Fourteen

I suppose it is possible, but I am interested in knowing the primary (or even the secondary) source that places him in Collapsible A. As far as I am aware, no one that Lowe helped out alive from Collapsible A died on board the Carpathia. After Edvard Lindell, there might have been 2 or even 3 others who died in the lifeboat and were given sea burials during the night by the alive occupants of Collapsible A but AFAIK none of the deceased that were given a sea burial after Lindell were identified by anyone; none of them could have been Livshin anyway because they never made it to the Carpathia. Likewise, the 3 deceased bodies still left in Collapsible A when Lowe found it were most likely Beattie, O'Keefe and the unidentifed fireman and in any case, Lowe left their bodies adrift with the boat.

Collapsible B has a better possibility for Livshin/Harmer. There are speculations that 2 or 3 of those who managed to climb on board the overturned boat died during the next few hours, one of them on board the Carpathia. Steward Thomas Whiteley said that he hung on to the overturned boat till one of the people standing on it died; they ther occupants then pushed the body overboard and allowed Whiteley to climb up. But Whitely's accounts of his own survival were so improbably fanciful that it would be difficult to take his statements seriously. Speculations that the man from Collaspsible B who died on board the Carpathia was Jack Phillips are now largely dismissed; theoretically therefore, it could have been Livshin/Harmer.