Collapsible B - Albert Moss' testimony

[VegarV]

I came across a radio interview with Albert Moss. A norwegian who claims he survived the night of the sinking by clinging on to collapsible B. The interview was made on norwegian radio in 1963, and I believe he had just turned 80 years old at that time. I interview is available here, but it is obivously in norwegian:

NRK Skole – Lærerike programmer og klipp

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www.nrk.no

The full interview is only 20 minutes long, but towards the end he gives a description on how they tried to launch the collapsible lifeboats. He tells that there was no time to lower the lifeboat using the davits so they just waited for the water to rise to launch it. The boat was laying on the deck with its keel down, so from what I understand this must have been Collapsible A.
He goes on telling that he was suddenly swept into the sea by a big wave, but after swimming around for a while he finds a lifeboat which was capsized (Collapsible B). He tries to pull himself up on the overturned boat, but the people there thinks that the boat is already too crowded. There was a lot of crew members clinging on to this boat and they order a man close to Mr. Moss to "shove him off". But the man simply responds "I cannot".
Here is the interesting part: Mr. Moss claimed that the other crew members reffered to this man as Phillips. My first thought is that this could perhaps be Jack Phillips, but his prescence on Collapsible B has been debated over the years. Mr. Moss makes no other remarks about this man, so his fate is unclear.
Or maybe this is another Phillips?
I could make a longer transcription of the interview if anyone is interested. I can se that Albert Moss is listed as a survivor of Collapsible B, but I know nothing else about whether his story is confirmed or not.
source: Collapsible B

 

[Seumas]

The long and the short of it is that nobody has ever presented any convincing proof whatsoever that Phillips made it to Collapsible B.

Indeed, how many of the passengers know who Phillips was ? They never interacted with him.

How would a fireman or a trimmer know who the ship's senior telegraphist was ? Again, they would have no reason to interact with him and Bride.

In the aftermath of the disaster, Albert Moss would no doubt have read many newspaper reports and followed the progress of the inquiry. Phillip's name would have come up frequently and planted itself in his mind.

Some people may point to Lightoller's memoirs as "proof" that Phillips made it to Collapsible B. However, these memoirs were written over twenty years after the disaster and unfortunately, quite a number of details in it do not match Lightoller's sworn 1912 testimony. It's not convincing at all.

Much, much stronger evidence is needed if Phillips is to be placed on Collapsible B.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

The long and the short of it is that nobody has ever presented any convincing proof whatsoever that Phillips made it to Collapsible B.

Or to any other lifeboat. That's what I have always thought.

I think there has been a good deal of confusion about statements by Lightoller and Bride at various times about "seeing" Jack Phillips on board Collapsible B before he died. Bride initially seemed to suggest he saw Phillips' body on the overturned collapsible himself, but later appeared to have changed his mind and said someone "told" him that Phillips was there. Likewise, Lightoller's testimony at the American Inquiry is vague and he seems to suggest that he got the information about Phillips from Bride. In the book Titanic and Other Ships, Lightoller appears to confusing the information he got from Bride while both were on #B and believes he got from Phillips. Finally, as to the body transferred from Collapsible B to Lifeboat #12, both Bride and Colonel Gracie were certain that it was NOT Phillips.

 

[VegarV]

Yes, I do agree with both of you. I was a bit skeptical when hearing his version. I do believe that memories are easily manipulated and stories adapt according to what other people say. Especially after 50 years.
But I still think it was very surprising that he mentioned Phillips' name.
I would have liked to hear Albert Moss elaborate a bit more about the person who refused to knock him overboard.

 

[TriHull]

VegarV, that is very interesting! Thank you for the interview information.

I, for one, would be very interested in knowing what else Mr. Moss had to say.

Any chance that you might translate and post on the forum the radio interview (perhaps as an attachment)? Since the interview is 20 minutes in length, is there an online translation program that might take the Norwegian language and transcribe it to English? That could be a quicker way to get the translation.

Tusen takk!

 

[Seumas]

If the missing crew depositions were to be found tomorrow and three or four men who were on Collapsible B positively identify Phillips as being on board. That could change things.

However, the evidence for him being on Collapsible B (including this) is very thin gruel indeed.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I personally believe that Albert Moss' 1963 radio interview should be taken with a chunk of salt only slightly smaller than the iceberg with which the Titanic collided.

Although it is not certain on which Lifeboat Moss was rescued, his statement to Delaware County Daily Times less than 10 days after the disaster was that an officer ordered him into a lifeboat because of his seafaring experience. The following year, he told the Boston Herald that he had jumped into the icy waters and "swum around for 3 hours" (a clearly impossible task - he would have become unconscious in 20 minutes and dead soon afterwards) before being hauled on board an unspecified lifeboat. In those early days, he made no mention of being on top of the capsized Collapsible B, let alone hearing someone already on board being addressed as "Phillips". All that came in that 1963 interview when he was an Octogenarian and liable to spin a few yarns to pass the time.

IMO, Moss was just one of the relatively few Third Class men lucky enough to find a place in a lifeboat. He might even have been a hitherto unsuspected interloper on a port lifeboat, which would then explain his apparent survivor's guilt. In 1963, both the ANTR book (1955) and the subsequent movie (1958) were still popular and 1962 had been the disaster's 50th Anniversary, which received a lot of publicity. IMO, Moss just picked out a few salient points and added them haphazardly to his yarn. The bit about "an experienced seaman being ordered into a lifeboat" would have been inspired by Major Peuchen; several surviving men had claimed to have "swum for a few hours" and so no surprises there. The part about Lightoller and Bride seeing or hearing about seeing Phillips on board Collapsible B probably also came up at some stage. All good ingredients for an 80-year-old Titanic survivor reminiscing about what actually did not happen to a few radio reporters who knew no better and probably found the story useful to boost their ratings.

 

[VegarV]

I personally believe that Albert Moss' 1963 radio interview should be taken with a chunk of salt only slightly smaller than the iceberg with which the Titanic collided.

Although it is not certain on which Lifeboat Moss was rescued, his statement to Delaware County Daily Times less than 10 days after the disaster was that an officer ordered him into a lifeboat because of his seafaring experience. The following year, he told the Boston Herald that he had jumped into the icy waters and "swum around for 3 hours" (a clearly impossible task - he would have become unconscious in 20 minutes and dead soon afterwards) before being hauled on board an unspecified lifeboat. In those early days, he made no mention of being on top of the capsized Collapsible B, let alone hearing someone already on board being addressed as "Phillips". All that came in that 1963 interview when he was an Octogenarian and liable to spin a few yarns to pass the time.

IMO, Moss was just one of the relatively few Third Class men lucky enough to find a place in a lifeboat. He might even have been a hitherto unsuspected interloper on a port lifeboat, which would then explain his apparent survivor's guilt. In 1963, both the ANTR book (1955) and the subsequent movie (1958) were still popular and 1962 had been the disaster's 50th Anniversary, which received a lot of publicity. IMO, Moss just picked out a few salient points and added them haphazardly to his yarn. The bit about "an experienced seaman being ordered into a lifeboat" would have been inspired by Major Peuchen; several surviving men had claimed to have "swum for a few hours" and so no surprises there. The part about Lightoller and Bride seeing or hearing about seeing Phillips on board Collapsible B probably also came up at some stage. All good ingredients for an 80-year-old Titanic survivor reminiscing about what actually did not happen to a few radio reporters who knew no better and probably found the story useful to boost their ratings.

Yes, I think this is a very plausible explanation. I am a lot more inclined to agree with you than to disagree. I probably didn't emphasize this well enough in my original post, but I was a bit skeptical when hearing about everything he said in the interview from 1963. Amongst other, he claims that he spoke personally with captain Smith on the bridge, and that he was one of the men in charge of launching Collapsible A, and I didn't really find it very credible. He made it seem like he was really in the centre of things.
I wasn't aware that he changed his story over the years, which doesn't exactly add credibility to his latest version either.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I wasn't aware that he changed his story over the years, which doesn't exactly add credibility to his latest version either.

In those days it was considered to be 'normal' to allow an Old Sea Dog a certain amount of latitude while reminiscing about his past life at sea in pubs and such. Since Albert Moss had been a genuine sailor for years in the past, he could be included in that category. Usually, such yarns meant no harm and might have even been intended to have bit of fun at the expense of young landlubbers.

I did not mean to sound so cynical in my previous post. But this business about several survivors claiming (although in some cases it might have been media embellishment) to have swum for hours in those icy waters before being rescued gets my blood pressure up sometimes. As a retired doctor and scuba diver, I know that it would not have been possible and it seems so silly and frustrating when grown people make such outlandish claims.

 

[Frank Bowron]

Just on the matter of swimming for several hours in icy water : what about James Pugh? He’s an expert and says he can only stay in the water for ten minutes at a time.

The man who spent 12 gruelling days swimming in the Arctic | World Economic Forum

 

[Strickland]

Re Arun's medical comment, not to mention Rose and Jack wading around inside the ship in the same temperature sea water for many minutes with no apparent ill effect. When I first saw the Cameron's film in the cinema, I recall thinking those scenes were completely ridiculous. The two ought to have been completely incapacitated by that lengthy exposure inside the ship. You don't need to be an expert in hypothermia to immediately identify that part of the film as wildly impossible.