Aberdeen Line Ship in British Pathe Newsreel

[Milos Grkovic]

In this post I'll be talking about my latest find of what ship was filmed leaving dock and who was the owner.

First of, let's start with the British Pathe's newsreel of this vessel from the short documenary, Titanic: The Facts told by Real Survivors and even found its way in A Night to Remember departure scene. This ship was often contributed as Lusitania, but the stern doesn't seem to match the one of hers. This is also a part that Dan Parkes discussed in his research about the Olympic class films from 1908 to 1937, as well as him making a full length movie version of that time period.
On his website, I'll quote this bit in which he only mentioned this unknown vessel (highlighted in red), excluding the right shot of Lusitania.

Some newsreels also include the above two shots, both of which are neither Titanic or Olympic class ships. The shot on the left of crowds waving goodbye to a ship departing is of ship that is yet to be identified. The ship on the right is most likely the SS Lusitania.

Going back to the not-yet-identifed ship departing, there are others who also tried, but ended up finding anything. There was one person in Titanic Animations Discord server who wanted to find the name of the ship, but the discussion didn't continue and the person left. After that, I came along and decided to tackle this mystery by myself going through each shipping line and trying to match the stern as we've never seen the front of the vessel.
The arrangement of every ship how the research has been going up to now, was out order in regards to: American line ships to now Aberdeen Line.

Yesterday, on 20th April, I was looking through the passenger ocean liners list at:

OCEAN LINERS

A selection of ocean-going passenger ships employed in regular routes from the mid-19th century until air travel prevailed in the 1960s.

greekshippingmiracle.org

and found the passenger/cargo ship S.S. Demosthenes among the liners that began service in 1911. So I went through the details of both Dan Parkes and my screengrab of the unknown vessel by counting 5 windows between the davit arms of the last lifeboat and see if the enclosed promenade and open well deck to see if they would match. To my surprise, they matched well to the Aberdeen's liner Demosthenes.

That's where I wanted to conclude my research, but eventually found the Demosthenes sister ship, the S.S. Themistocles which also matched the one in the newsreel. It's difficult to tell which one was filmed departing but I'll end saying that this unknown vessel departing with the crowd cheering for their loved ones onboard in the newsreel with the Demosthenes.
For the end note, I'll just say that I did find a route for both of these two ships, but I still don't know where was that newsreel filmed.
So, I'll leave it at that until I manage to find the location and also ecluding the history about these two ships as the main focus of this is about that newsreel of theunknown ship departing that was also used in A Night to Remember Titanic leaving port scene.

A link o Parkes research article about the Olympic Class films is also up.

 

[Dan E. Parkes]

Some great research Milos! I am so pleased that this mystery looks to be finally solved.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

My pleasure. It wasn't easy with trying to guess, like that one with the SS City of New York's stern, but the recent research did indicate to me about the ship was built by Harland & Wolff and owned by a company that'd commissioned for it. It helped me go through each and every one of the listed Harland & Wolff ships.

 

[Boris Mileski]

If the ship in the footage is SS Themistocles then it's worth noting that she has another connection to Titanic. Both were built by Harland & Wolff and appear together in a photo taken by Robert Welch sometime before the launch of Themistocles in September, 1910. Titanic can be seen in the background, still under construction in the Arrol gantry.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

Woah! I have never seen that photograph of Themistocles with Titanic in the background.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

All right. Just now I've stumbled across this photograph of Themistocles departing Sydney at ClydeMaritime site. The second thing I look at it,the dock looks just like the one on the newsreel. It's cropped on that site, but the dock and the crowd of people waving is exactly like in the footage. Except that the Themistocles here is panted light grey.

Themistocles – ClydeMaritime

www.clydemaritime.co.uk

 

[Milos Grkovic]

Recently I've decided to come back to this thread about my last year's find of the mystery ship from a film reel. This time focusing on the TSS Themistocles.

While photographs from the NMNI online collection didn't really help as the lifeboat that overhangs doesn't really match, I came across this photo which Wikipedia uses and can be found by searching through the website of State Library of Queensland. While finding the dock from which Themistocles departed ended up assuming it's in Sydney, there's one thing in this photo that matches the description of the Themistocles, rather than Demosthenes, from the British Pathe reel - the lifeboat overhanging over the side of the ship with another one in its place. The general layout of the lifeboat arrangement at the stern while comparing the two may lean more towards Themistocles as she was first to be built alongside her sister ship the Demosthenes.​

• The general info about Themistocles are​
• launched in September 1910​
• Fully fitted in January 1911​
• Maiden voyage in February 1911 and​
• for the opening to the public, I'll leave that to those who might know as there are more about Themistocles​

Photograph of Themistocles at Bulimba Wharf in Brisbane. State Library of Queensland collection

close up of the stern deck of Themistocles with the lifeboat overhanging the side of the ship. State Library of Queensland collection.

Demosthenes stern as she departs Sydney. State Library of Queensland collection.

 

[Dan E. Parkes]

Some brilliant research Milos, thank you so much for sharing it.

It has always frustrated me that this "mystery" ship is used to represent Titanic in the British Pathé reel and yet looks nothing like an Olympic-class vessel. The dates align well - as by April 1912 the February 1911 footage would have been easily accessible -and to the general public no one would see the difference.

Thanks to your research it looks like this little mystery is now solved.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

Some brilliant research Milos, thank you so much for sharing it.

It has always frustrated me that this "mystery" ship is used to represent Titanic in the British Pathé reel and yet looks nothing like an Olympic-class vessel. The dates align well - as by April 1912 the February 1911 footage would have been easily accessible -and to the general public no one would see the difference.

Thanks to your research it looks like this little mystery is now solved.

I'm glad I was able to help.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

Update from the author of this thread:

After finding out that there are two ships that match the "mystery" ship, and leaning more to Themistocles as she had quite a long career than her sister ship Demosthenes, now comes a challenge after posting the #7 post. In search of finding the entirety of the film.

Plus, this is something I have to mention. Both Themistocles and Demosthenes are like Olympic and Titanic, both were sister ships, with the first one getting more publicity than the other. That was easy for Olympic and Titanic as it's straight forward to notice the differences, but for these two. It's hard to get a good confirmation.

But overall, until the rest of the film surfaces, all of us will know for certain which out of these two liners was filmed leaving. While I did say that Themistocles is the one that matches the one in the footage, I'll stick my guess there.

Edit: I've decided to include the film that was cut from the 'Titanic Aftermath' film from British Pathe ©

Another thing I forgot to add and it can be noticed in this clipped bit from the full film. You may have noticed that the liner stands still before that rigged sailing ship gets cut in frame.

The first one being, the camera doesn't move. It appears that a cameraman was recording the ship as a boat (?) leaves the liner. Also, how do I know this? That sailing ship stays in frame before the stern covers it.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

After trying to find what that shaped object is on the one of these two ships - Demosthenes and Themistocles, which can be found at their aft well deck cargo hatch, I've come across this photograph of Themisocles taken by Frederick Garrner Wilkinson on 26th January 1933. He was aboard a ferry travelling from Mosman to Circular Quay. As described in his collection by the Australian National Maritime Museum:
"Frederick Wilkinson took this photograph of the THEMISTOCLES at 8:35am on Thursday 26 January 1933 aboard a ferry travelling from Mosman to Circular Quay. The THEMISTOCLES is dressed overall as the flagship for the annual Anniversary Regatta, and is moored to the P&O buoy off Neutral Bay. 'The Sydney Morning Herald' reported on one interesting aspect of the day's festivities: 'Variety was given to the harbour scene by a representation of a huge sea serpent being propelled, apparently without effort, around the flagship, followed by a miniature "Ark Ararat" and other small craft symbolical of historical events.'"

Fig. 1 Frederick Wilkinson's photograph of the Themistocles dressed for the annual Anniversary Regatta.

While there was no yellow sheer line in the film, as evident that it was used in the 1912 Titanic films, there's one thing that stood out, is that same object between the two staircases to go to the raised deck at the stern. It's hard to say for what that object was used for at the time of that film was developed.

Fig. 2 Same object on the aft well deck that the Themistocles had during her 1933 Regatta.

Conclusion​

While is evident that this same object on the aft well deck is the same during Themistocles' later career in the 1930s is indeed the same one, even after finding no photographs of her sister ship the Demosthenes having the exact same one. But before jumping to a conclusion, the research will continue until I can find out more. While I lean towards the Themistocles as a definite answer, it's appropriate to learn more about the Demosthenes. That is to check if she had the same exact object or a covered cargo hatch on the same spot as her aft well deck.
So far, nothing from that unfortunately. As the State Library of Queensland was the very first site to check the photographs of both ocean liners, the Australian National Museum has been a good source for finding and examining photographs.

I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[Seumas]

Great detective work Milos ! Well done

Your discovery is particularly interesting to me because one of my ancestors immigrated to Sydney, Australia aboard the Demosthenes in 1920.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

Thank you! That's nice to hear.

 

[Milos Grkovic]

Update: I've just found another photo of Themisocles which was taken by Frederick Samuel Gould while she was anchored in Gravesend Reach, River Thames: https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-999997
The year says July 1911, and an unidentified Gamecock Steam Towing Co Ltd tug.
But one thing that stuck out is that she had that canvas covering at her aft well deck and two aft lifeboat near her docking bridge. It's hard to see the entire thing underneath, but the covering above aft well deck and the second lifeboat in the last row is noticeable. While I can't find more of her sister ship Demosthenes, this is the only photograph I was able to find of the Themistocles during her career throughout 1911.

​

The next hard task is going back to the first step and try to find who recorded the ship leaving. While I was going through the film and the newspaper clips at Trove, it never mentioned the source. Just British Pathé and with a having the film cut down. If there are some news about a full uncut film, please let me know as I do need help with this.​

 

[Milos Grkovic]

I do get in a dilemma not staying on topic of posting other ships but going by one ship, but as I find more and more photographs of Themistocles. Taken by Allan C. Green, this photograph shows Themistocles during her time in Shaw, Savill & Albion Line. From © State Library Victoria.

What I find about this photograph is when I first discovered through Greek Shipping Miracle website, are the lifeboat canvases. With the exception to the lowered sheer line. And to correct myself with the website, ship was Demosthenes in that photograph on page 5 while on page 6 is Themistocles. So both of their structural appearances confuse me on that part so apologies for that.