Any pre WW1 liners on display

[Tarn Stephanos]

There seem to be plenty of preserved decomissioned warships from the early 20th century, as well as the 19th century, but very few ocean liners...

Brunell's mid 19th century liner liner Great Britian (which was stranded for decades in the faulkland islands) is the only 19th century ocean liner I know of that has been restored and is on display.
The only other ones I know of are on the sea floor.

The Great Britian, the Queen Mary, and the United States are the only true ocean liners I know of that are quite old that still exist.
The United States might go back into service, but the Great Britian and Queen Mary are essentially floating museums.
Where else might one find a very old ocean liner that has been restored, and is open to the public for tours?
I still cringe with frustration when thinking of the NEEDLESS scrapping of the Aquitania in the early 50s.
She could have been the ultimate ocean liner museum.Its is a pity so few liners were preserved....

regards

Tarn Stephanos

 

[Bob Godfrey]

The liner Princesa Victoria, built by Harland & Wolff for the Union Castle Line, entered service in 1936, served in WW2 as an armed merchant cruiser and was still in use as a cruise ship in the Mediterranean into this century. Last I heard it was up for sale a year go for about $5m. A small sum to a man of your means, Tarn, and a worthwhile investment.

There's also the Hikawa Maru, a Japanese Trans-Pacific luxury liner built at the Mitsubishi yard in 1930. Served in WW2 as a troopship and later as a hospital ship, which accounts for its survival. After resuming a commercial career postwar, the ship has been preserved at Yokohama as a tourist attraction.

 

[Tarn Stephanos]

Hi Bob
A man of my means? I only wish i had $5 million- Im living off my ebay sales and working on Boston harbor ferry boats.
These days i live paycheck to paycheck, but one day my ship might come in.....

Ill have to check out any online info about the Princesa Victoria and the Hikawa Maru, they sound very interesting...
Thanks again.
regards

Tarn Stephanos

 

[Bob Godfrey]

Lots of pics of the Princesa here, Tarn:

http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/ChandrisVictoria.html

Couldn't you put up a small deposit and go for easy payments on the rest? Just think how impressed your friends will be when they're talking about their cars and you show them what you drive!

 

[Brent Holt]

Olympic and Mauretania (I) would also have been excellent candidates for preservation. But the list is endless. Ocean liners have not fared well in this area. It is a shame that at least 1 major pre-WWI liner was not saved for the future.

Brent

 

[Tarn Stephanos]

Thanks for the information and the link Bob.
The Princesa is a lovely ship!

Brent, I think in the case of Olympic, the plate her engines sat on was cracked, her rivets were loose, and she needed massive maitenence.
Plus with Queen mary on the stocks, Olympic was simply out of date...
Same for the Mauretania...
So it wasnt seen as practical to keep those ships around...
As for the Aquitania though, accounts I have read suggests that when she was retired, her engines and her hull were sound....
The Aquitania outlived them all..only to have her life prematurely brought to a close...

regards

Tarn Stephanos

 

[Brent Holt]

Contrary to what many believe, Olympic was in good condition when she was retired. She was no more outdated than Aquitania, Majestic, or Berengaria. The other ships mentioned above also had structural problems in their later years that required heavy repairs. Aquitania had cracks and superstructure problems that were addressed in the 1930s.
Olympic was actually cheaper to operate than Aquitania, Majestic, or Berengaria. Olympic was re-riveted in some areas and the bedplates repaired in 1932.
One problem is that some researchers in the past only looked into some of the repairs done to Olympic in the later part of her career and concluded that she was coming apart! But they failed to check into other similar vessels to Olympic and see what problems they had. When you dig some more, you find that Olympic's required repairs were average for her size and age.
Mark Chirnside's article, Olympic: Another Premature Death, is an excellent start on this subject. (Although it is just the tip of the iceberg from what I have heard)
You can find the article here:
https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/articles/olympic_02_chirnside.shtml

Brent

 

[Jon Hollis]

I have an audio tape of a friend of mine Harold Blakey now deceased that he made for me while on the QE2 he was an engine room writer and before joining Cunard he was on board the Olympic in the Engine Room. On the tape he tell how he and his co workers were having coffee one morning when they felt the engines suddenly going full speed astern. They threw open the deadlights and looked out just in time to see one half of the Nantucket Lightship going by their porthole. He also mentioned that the Olympics rescue boat was already halfway down to the water. Any way later in the tape he describes while they were docked in New York they were pouring lead for Babbett Bearings when they noticed a large crack in the Engine Bed Plates. What with the claims for the Lightship (White Star Line paid for a replacement of the Lightship by the way) and the cracked bed plates that spelled the end of the Olympic because to remove the engines to replace the plate and considering her age it would have not be worthwhile

 

[Brent Holt]

Interesting, although I am somewhat skeptical. There may be Cunard records somewhere to prove or disprove it. (Of course, his memory might have been off somewhat since he was speaking of events decades later.)
Brent

 

[Jon Hollis]

> [I don't know why so many people on the site doubt peoples words this man was smart and a long time seafarer and would have no reason to make up any stories. It seems this is the norm around here that everyone wants sworn in blood proof of everything that anyone brings up that is contrary to the insiders. HE WS THERE we were not... ]

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Jon, it's simply a matter of people with an interest in history wanting to see some documented sources to back up any number of stories that are running around out there. It's nothing personal or anything like that. Check through the threads going back a few years and you'll see...for example...any number of claims of people being in the Titanic who in fact were never there.

Why would anyone "make up a story like that?"

We really don't know, but they do it anyway. With that in mind, it's not unreasonable that people would want some sort of objective confirmation.

 

[Jon Hollis]

> [So any way with todays technology to put this tape throught the computer so it can actually be heard. P.S. Harry died on board QE2 pen in hand on his last voyage. He was sheduled to retire when he got back to the UK on the return voyage but did not want to leave the sea.]

 

[Brent Holt]

Research is a very hard thing. The best way to approach it, in my opinion, is to look at everything with a skeptical eye, at least at first. The best source material would probably be written records from that period, preferably company records. Newspaper accounts and personal stories would come next. (Although newspapers can be riddled with errors-there are daily examples all across the world)
Although I am skeptical of the info presented, I do not discount it completely. (Unlike some researchers who are so comfortable with their vision of things that they are unwilling to listen to alternatives)
I would also need more info about the nature of the crack in the bedplates. And what exactly would be considered extensive damage? In addition, Olympic's retirement was not originally planned for 1935. It was originally anticipated that she would re-enter service in the summer after her lay-up in April. I also believe I read somewhere that her insurance was renewed for another year in March 1935. If this type of damage was evident in May 1934, why wasn’t Olympic withdrawn from service sooner?
This brings up many interesting questions.
Brent

 

[Jon Hollis]

> [Olympic at that time was still White Star the merger had not taken place. The loss of the Nantucket Lightship caused the plaster to be put on her mast when she docked. This was not good news for White Star Line plus now the discovery of the cracks. As I mentioned Harry passed away and I never thought then to get the dimensions and fine particulars as we were just chatting ships history bye the way huis faborite ships he also worked on was the Homeric anyway, I wonder if the scrapyard records if they could ever be found, would give information or better still the New York Surveyors report?? Those should be around someplace.

 

[Bob Godfrey]

A bit off topic, but getting back to Tarns' original posting there is (or recently was) something very like a nineteenth century ocean liner moored at Alexandria.

When the Suez canal was opened in 1869, first vessel through was L'Aigle, imperial yacht of Napoleon III of France. Right behind it was Mahroussa, the royal yacht of the Khedive of Egypt. Yacht is in this case a misleading term - Mahroussa was an ocean-going steamer, as big or bigger than many of the liners of its time. She was designed by Oliver Lang (designer of Queen Victoria's first steam yacht, the Victoria and Albert) and built in 1865 at their Poplar works on the Thames by the Samuda Brothers, who were among the pioneers of iron shipbuilding and beginning to specialise in ironclad warships. The original design had paddle wheel propulsion, but the ship was converted in 1905 to turbines and triple screws.

Mahroussa continued to serve the Egyptian Royal family until King Farouk abdicated in 1951, when the ship was taken over by the Egyptian government, renamed El Horria and began a new career as a naval training vessel. Mahroussa/El Horria, which was already 6 years old when White Stars' first Oceanic (of similar size) entered service in 1871, last crossed the Atlantic in 1976 at the ripe old age of 111. The last photo I have seen shows the vessel moored at Alexandria less than ten years ago and looking to be in good condition. She will now be approaching 140 years old. Does anybody know if this vessel is still in use and maybe even still seaworthy?