First class baggage ticket

[barbara flannagan]

hi everyone can anyone help me please I have seen a first class baggage ticket exactly the same as the one displayed in the Merseyside Martime Museum,in the name of the Rev J Stuart Holden only difference is it has the additional word Southampton on the line above the date of the ship sailing. What is your opinion how can I verify it.

 

[Jason Schleisman]

Do you have a picture you could post?

[Moderator's note: This thread was originally posted in a separate topic, but has been moved to the one which is discussing the same issues. JDT]

 

[Brian J. Ticehurst]

Who could this have belonged to?
Please have a look at the photograph of the little Brooch and note the little White stars round the edges.
The Brooch was made in the early 1900's in Italy and is known as a Mini Micro Mosaic and today these items are very collectable. The little White Stars are made from the Millifori process or (1,000 flowers).
It measures just 1 1/8 inches across or 251 mm. The mosaic consists of hundreds of tiny pieces of marble and stone etc., to make the pattern.
I purchased this item in Southampton recently it was in a Button tin with a lot of other junk- I spotted the little White Stars and purchased the tin full. The brooch was filthy and my wife cleaned it up and you can see the result.
It would have been an expensive item back in the early 1900's so ''Who did this belong to''? Sarah Smith the Captains wife? Sylvia - Lightollers wife? Or perhaps some lowly Fireman or Scullion saved up and purchased it for his sweetheart before boarding a White Star Ship?
If you use your imagination you can make up some lovely provenance for Ebay!
I have checked a lot of photographs of White Star crews female relatives but I have yet to find any of them wearing such a brooch - but you never know.
Anyone any thoughts?
Best regards

Brian

 

[Spencer Knarr]

....What?

 

[barbara flannagan]

Hi
sorry it took so long for reply. Please see picture. Any information would be most appreciated. Thanks

 

[Eric Longo]

Hello Barbara,

From what I can see, that is the reproduction from the "The Titanic Collection" boxed set published in 1998 by Chronicle Books and written by Eric Sauder and Hugh Brewster, which now seems to be collectible in its own right. It contained many good quality reproductions of Titanic related items, including this ticket. The item you posted seems to have been further folded and stained with tea etc. in the usual manner to create the appearance of age and authenticity. However, the mark above the word "ticket" for example is seen on the reproduction and your item and that troubles me. The color ink used for the parts filled out by hand are different (faded sepia on the original) but the placement and character formation appears exactly the same - highly unlikely. It appears to have been gone over with the blue inks, while adding "Southampton" in another hand - overall it looks drawn and not written as an attempt was made to follow the original printed "handwriting" on the reproduction. I suspect the modern inks and sizing used on the reproduction are not as easy to wash off as original material from the period otherwise we'd see a different name altogether - one would expect to see a different name than that written on the only surviving example and known reproductions of it. Even if there were need for several tickets what are the chances that the only two surviving examples out of all First Class Tickets would bear the same name? The top of the reproduction had a detail which seems to have been trimmed off here which would explain why the space between the upper tips of the handwriting and the top edge of the card seems a little less on your ticket - although the handwriting is apparently identical. I am sure several others here can give you much more useful information - Titanic is surely not my strong suit. Someone will know the exact dimensions of the genuine article, another the type of printing press and paper used to create the originals. Spencer?

Best,
Eric Longo

 

[Spencer Knarr]

I couldn't have said it better myself Eric. I'm sorry to say that this is a forgery, and a very amateurish one at that.

Here's a picture of the original ticket for comparison:

I had the privilege of seeing the original and can tell you that it is printed on a thin card stock - much thinner and smoother than the stock used to print the reproductions found in "The Titanic Collection".

Reverend Stuart Holden had to cancel his trip at the last minute as his wife became ill on April 9th. After the sinking the Reverend had the ticket mounted with the caption "He who redeemeth thy life from destruction."

For those of you that don't know, this isn't really a "ticket", but rather a small note card that was sent along with the actual ticket to warn the passenger that company liability for loss or damage to baggage was strictly limited....but you can always buy insurance!!

 

[Dave Gittins]

Very interesting!

I have long known of the existence of these covering slips, but I hadn't seen one.

Their function was raised in the British civil court. The slip drew attention to conditions on the back of the ticket which stated that White Star would not accept liability for losses caused by its servants.

"Neither the shipowner Agent or Passage Broker shall be liable to any passenger carried under this Contract for loss damage or delay to the passenger…Arising from the act of God…Collision…perils of the Seas…or of navigation of any kind…or from causes of any kind beyond the Carrier’s control even though the loss damage or delay may have been caused or contributed to by the neglect or default of the Shipowner’s servants or of other persons for whose acts he would otherwise be responsible."

Having been found negligent by a jury, White Star would have used this statement to avoid liability, but the court ruled that the tickets were not in a form approved by the Board of Trade. The verdict was upheld on appeal.

White Star came that close to escaping paying damages in Britain. The judges of the Court of Appeal were divided 2 - 1.