Friendships between officers and passengers

[Sarah S]

Hello everyone~

I have seen some pictures where officers are posing with passengers, although it was always conveyed to me that officers were somehow unable / forbidden to have close interactions with them. Yet some of those pictures looks so intimate and close that I doubt the officers had just met these passengers and then randomly snapped a pic - they must have had enough time to get to know each other.
Officer Lightoller and Murdoch had even met their future wives while on duty on a ship, how did they manage that with their job being so strict and time consuming? Was their enough time for free interactions? Would only 1st class passengers have been able to speak to an officer?

And theoretically, could it have been possible that the same happened on the Titanic, could for example Officer Moody or Pitman have met a passenger on the Titanic and become close with her during the voyage, given that the Titanic had reached its planned destination? Was there room for that in their timeline as officers?

Can someone explain to me the officer-passenger relationships and in how far close relationships could have been made in those days on ships?


Thank you very much

 

[Seumas]

Passengers and the navigating officers could mix on big long voyages (several weeks journey time) out to the likes of Australia, New Zealand, Japan, India (pre-partition) and South Africa.

Murdoch and Lightoller met their wives whilst on White Star's often overlooked Australia & New Zealand route.

However, on a relatively short transatlantic voyage from Southampton to New York, it was not the done thing. The ship's pursers and the surgeons would represent the "face" of the company to the passengers instead.

 

[Thomas Krom]

Good day to you Sara,


How are you? While the ship was sailing there were some strict rules. The officer's handbook mentioned:

17.-Attention to Passengers
All Employees of the Company are to show every attention to the requirements of passengers and visitors consistent with the due performance of their duties, but Officers, except the Doctor and Purser, are not permitted to participate in the amusements of passengers, such as games, concerts, &c. ; they will confine themselves to showing ordinary courtesy to passengers when off duty. Officers and Engineers of all grades are strictly forbidden to entertain passengers in their rooms or to receive hospitality from them.

Most of the pictures appear to have been taken while the ship arrived at some point. I heard some passengers were friends with the officers on the Titanic. I don't know who said it from the top of my head anymore, but a first class survivor said that he was friends with third officer Pitman. I'll trace the statement for you.

Kind regards,

Thomas

 

[Sarah S]

Passengers and the navigating officers could mix on big long voyages (several weeks journey time) out to the likes of Australia, New Zealand, Japan, India (pre-partition) and South Africa.

Murdoch and Lightoller met their wives whilst on White Star's often overlooked Australia & New Zealand route.

However, on a relatively short transatlantic voyage from Southampton to New York, it was not the done thing. The ship's pursers and the surgeons would represent the "face" of the company to the passengers instead.

Well this makes sense then! It would be so interesting to find out more about what went on between Titanic officers and passengers during different voyages, and if they became friends off-ship.

Good day to you Sara,


How are you? While the ship was sailing there were some strict rules. The officer's handbook mentioned:

Most of the pictures appear to have been taken while the ship arrived at some point. I heard some passengers were friends with the officers on the Titanic. I don't know who said it from the top of my head anymore, but a first class survivor said that he was friends with third officer Pitman. I'll trace the statement for you.

Kind regards,

Thomas

I am fine, thank you. And how are you?

The last bit is especially interesting! If there is anything else regarding the titanic officers friendships with passengers, I’d be grateful if you let me know!



Other question:
Was this officer-passenger mixing only possible for 1st class passengers? Could for example a Murdoch or Lightoller meet a 2nd/3rd class passenger and get close with them during a voyage as well? Or did only 1st class passengers get this privilege?

 

[Thomas Krom]

I am fine, thank you. And how are you?

I am blessed to hear that. I am doing a bit below average so to say.

The last bit is especially interesting! If there is anything else regarding the titanic officers friendships with passengers, I’d be grateful if you let me know!

I'll keep you updated. I believe it was Dr. Washington Dodge, but I will search for it.

Other question:
Was this officer-passenger mixing only possible for 1st class passengers? Could for example a Murdoch or Lightoller meet a 2nd/3rd class passenger and get close with them during a voyage as well? Or did only 1st class passengers get this privilege?

Second class passenger Charlotte Caroline Collyer actually recalled having met first officer Murdoch during the voyage. I'll give you an exact quote from her soon.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

There would have been a lot of preening and posing, all of which went with the territory, but close personal relationships, shipboard romances and trysts just weren't a thing.

It wasn't as if anybody was a saint either. The fly in the ointment was the brutal watch standing rotation which made a full an unbroken good night's sleep a pipe dream. Even if the couple actively and passionately wanted to get up close and personal to mix DNA and make babies, he would have been too tired to do anything other than shake her hand.

"When we sleep...." Lightoller testified, "...we die!"

It was that rough.

 

[Seumas]

"When we sleep...." Lightoller testified, "...we die!"

Wasn't that Lowe ?

 

[Michael H. Standart]

You may be right. After awhile, you get them mixed up.

 

[Jason D. Tiller]

Yes it was Harold Lowe, who made that statement. When asked at the U.S. Inquiry on Day 5 as to his whereabouts during the collision, Lowe said:

‘It must have been while I was asleep. You must remember that we do not have any too much sleep and therefore when we sleep we die.'

 

[Sarah S]

I am blessed to hear that. I am doing a bit below average so to say.

Oh that’s sad to hear. I’m sure you will get better very soon!

I'll keep you updated. I believe it was Dr. Washington Dodge, but I will search for it.

Second class passenger Charlotte Caroline Collyer actually recalled having met first officer Murdoch during the voyage. I'll give you an exact quote from her soon.

I think I somewhere read about the Collyer-Murdoch meeting, but if I remember correctly somebody said it was unlikely that it really happened. Thanks for keeping me updated!

There would have been a lot of preening and posing, all of which went with the territory, but close personal relationships, shipboard romances and trysts just weren't a thing.

I already guessed shipboard romances weren’t that common, especially with their schedule as officers. But that’s also why I wondered how there were still enough pictures that kind of suggest close friendships were pretty common. That picture of Ada and William Murdoch with multiple other people on the photo gives the impression they all had sat down with drinks and cheers during the voyage, having a fun time and being super close. But that can’t be true because according to the officer‘s handbook it wasn’t allowed for officers to participate in amusements. So how did Ada get close with so many crewmen? . (That particular picture with Ada Murdoch probably happened during one of the long voyages, but there were also pics of Boxhall with some women that give off the same impression as above..). I also read somewhere that Sylvia Lightoller used to be carried around by crewmen and (when she met him) Lightoller carried her around because of her club foot. How was it even possible, especially for those times, that a woman got so physical with crewmembers on a ship, and how did said crewmen/officers like Lightoller even find the time for giving so much attention to just one passenger?

I see many contradicting accounts, one telling me it was impossible for an officer to get close with passengers during a voyage under any circumstances, and others mentioning friendships and marriages happening because of shipboard-meetings with happy photographs

 

[Michael H. Standart]

I see many contradicting accounts, one telling me it was impossible for an officer to get close with passengers during a voyage under any circumstances, and others mentioning friendships and marriages happening because of shipboard-meetings with happy photographs

It was far from impossible. Where there's a will there's a way. I get that.
The catch is being so tired that you're more like one of the walking dead.
I expect zombies make rather poor lovers!

 

[Jason D. Tiller]

I expect zombies make rather poor lovers!

LOL! Luckily for me I wasn't drinking my cup of tea when I read that, or else I would have spitted it out!

 

[Yuki.y]

Hello.
Mr. Pierre Maréchal of First Class has a record of having spoken with Mr. Murdoch on the morning of 4/14. (Confessions, 15 avril 1937)
I used a translator to read it and it appears that the two men knew each other before they boarded the Titanic.
Mr. Maréchal said that Mr. Murdoch came into the room. They apparently talked about the iceberg. I do not know Mr. Murdoch's work hours, is this a possible story?　I have not verified this information, so I apologize if it is incorrect.

Mr. Maréchal has published his memoirs many times in various media. I am sure that not all of the records he left are correct, but they are very interesting and you can read them if you wish. (This is off the subject of this thread, but reading his memoirs made me think that it is very likely that the "man who jumped into boat #5" was him. I wonder if he escaped in boat #5 and then moved to boat #7?)

 

[Seumas]

Hello.
Mr. Pierre Maréchal of First Class has a record of having spoken with Mr. Murdoch on the morning of 4/14. (Confessions, 15 avril 1937)
I used a translator to read it and it appears that the two men knew each other before they boarded the Titanic.
Mr. Maréchal said that Mr. Murdoch came into the room. They apparently talked about the iceberg. I do not know Mr. Murdoch's work hours, is this a possible story?　I have not verified this information, so I apologize if it is incorrect.

Mr. Maréchal has published his memoirs many times in various media. I am sure that not all of the records he left are correct, but they are very interesting and you can read them if you wish. (This is off the subject of this thread, but reading his memoirs made me think that it is very likely that the "man who jumped into boat #5" was him. I wonder if he escaped in boat #5 and then moved to boat #7?)

Murdoch going to a passenger's cabin I find very hard to believe.

Them speaking briefly on the boat deck during the early evacuation is a wee bit more believable.

 

[Thomas Krom]

(This is off the subject of this thread, but reading his memoirs made me think that it is very likely that the "man who jumped into boat #5" was him. I wonder if he escaped in boat #5 and then moved to boat #7?)

I tend to disagree. Of the estimated 28 occupants of lifeboat number 7 when it was lowered away 24 are known with 100% certainty, Paul Chevré, Pierre Maréchal and Alfred Omont beng three of them. Mr. Maréchal is also mentioned by name by Dickinson Bishop in his account at the American Senate inquiry:

Senator SMITH.
Did you know anything about the people in your lifeboat, except yourselves? Did you know any of them except your wife?

Mr. BISHOP.
Yes; the French aviator - they called him "Marshall"- was in our boat. I could not pronounce his name.