Hammad Hassab

[Grant Woollacott]

Is it clear as to what ever became of Hammad Hassab?

Ed: See: The mysterious story of Hammad Hassab

 

[Bob DiGiulio]

Anyone have information on Henry Harper's Egyptian "dragoman," who accompanied the Harpers (and their dog) on the Titanic? Why was he called "handsome" and "mysterious," with passengers steering clear of him? I've looked through my various Titanic sources, but find nothing more. Anyone with info or a suggestion on a place to look--much appreciated!
Bob

[Moderator's Note: This message, originally posted as a separate thread under a different subtopic, has been moved to this pre-existing thread addressing the same subject. MAB]

 

[Sarah S]

This is the first time I see there was an egyptian passenger on the ship, in first class even! Has anyone done more research into him? Since he travelled in first class as an arab, I wonder if he faced any discrimination on board. I did read the article by researcher Yasmine Saad but some of the stories shared by Hassabs family seem rather unbelievable.
And it’s always sad to read things like: „Al-Ahram published an article on April 17, 1912, in which it confirmed that it got in touch with the company responsible for the Titanic "White Star Line". The company [the White Starline] asserted that there were no Egyptians or Arabs passengers on board. This is of course what the company said to escape the murder scandal. Some Arabs were shot, and the majority of the people who died that night were the third-class Arabs.“

Seems like most authors who research into the arab passengers stumble upon such claims one way or another. Though I do wonder why the WSL denied arab passengers being on board in the first place..

 

[Arun Vajpey]

According to his ET bio, Hassab was the Harper's 'Dragoman' which meant a translator, interpreter and general guide; he had experience as a tour guide and was hired through Thomas Cook. As to him travelling as a First Class passenger, I assume it would have been in a similar "rank" as Guggenheim's valet Victor Giglio. I am guessing that Hammad would have dined with other servants of First Class passengers. He was rescued with the Harpers on Lifeboat #3.

Seems like most authors who research into the arab passengers stumble upon such claims one way or another

You bet they do. There appear to have been many claims from Syrian-Lebanese passengers on board the Titanic. most of which were made-up hyperbole by the survivors from that group or their relatives gladly swallowed by some reporters and writers.

Some Arabs were shot, and the majority of the people who died that night were the third-class Arabs.“

That's BS and I am sure that you know it. if you stretch probability to its maximum, there is a remote chance that the two men shot by an officer (who then killed himself) were Arabs but we cannot be certain.

 

[Sarah S]

That's BS and I am sure that you know it.

Yes I know. I find it so disappointing when such claims are spread as facts. I feel like the true stories of the arab survivors are still hidden somewhere. I can’t wrap my head around how such untruths aren’t questioned by the families and how researchers just copied their words without actually checking if it adds up.

But I also wonder why the White Starline claimed there were no arab passengers on board, when in facts there were like a hundreds or so..

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I also wonder why the White Starline claimed there were no Arab passengers on board, when in facts there were like a hundreds or so..

One possible answer is that majority of the "Arab" passengers on board the Titanic were Syrian-Lebanese people. In 1912 Syria was still part of the Ottoman Empire and so its inhabitants might not have been considered as "Arabs" in the same manner as now. There is the possibility that during that time an "Arab" was someone from one of the countries in the Arabian peninsula.

Thus, it is likely that Hammad Hassab in 1912 would have been an "Egyptian" rather an "Arab" to most people

I feel like the true stories of the arab survivors are still hidden somewhere

There are no 'hidden true stories' about the Middle Eastern passengers on board the Titanic any more than there are about the Scandinavian, Irish or Eastern European passengers. Almost all of them were berthed in Third Class, which meant that they faced the same difficulties and disadvantages as the remaining steerage passengers did with getting to safety. Taken individually, a few like Fahim al_Zainni, Latifah Baqlini (with her family) etc took their initiative and found places in lifeboats. Many other Syrian-Lebanese women and children were on Collapsible C but their male relatives might not have made it because there were simply no more lifeboats available by then. That and the fact that Murdoch or McElroy fired 2 shots into the air to deter people from rushing Collapsible C has been embellished into stories of several people being shot by a combination of reports from survivor misconceptions, newspaper embellishments, ridiculously made-up stories from survivors' descendants and above all the tendency of one "researcher" to swallow such stories verbatim, build-up her own ridiculous scenarios from those stories, present them in the shape of a very badly written book and accuse anyone who questioned its validity of "Euro-Centrism".

Lifeboat #15 for example, had a large number of Scandinavian passengers on board, including several men; likewise Collapsible C and a number of Syrian-Lebanese women and children. The Irish survivors on the other hand, were more scattered in different lifeboats. To me, that suggests that the language barrier played its part in the demography of survivors in lifeboats; the Scandinavians and Lebanese passengers, with their limitations with English, could have remained close to each other and so the survivors among them mostly ended up in certain lifeboats. The Irish survivors on the other hand, had no such language barrier and so individually took their chances as they came. IMO, given the manner in which the passengers were berthed and the Titanic flooded and sank, Third Class passenger survival showed a certain pattern and that's all there is to it. There were no hidden stories, shooting sprees or other anti-Arab conspiracies of the kind that some people would want you to believe.

 

[Sarah S]

Thus, it is likely that Hammad Hassab in 1912 would have been an "Egyptian" rather an "Arab" to most people

Could be true but in the original quote the WSL also denied that there were Egyptians on board. But that could be because Hassab was the only Egyptian on board.

While I don’t believe in shooting sprees or anti-arab conspiracies per se, I wouldn’t go as far as to say all of the reports must be unfounded when the actual survivor stories have not been told yet. Almost all reports we have seen about their experience are negatively connoted. The survivors from Collapsible C probably witnessed „warning shots“ fired by an Officer late during the sinking, but they never actually related the story in proper manner, we only have untrustworthy „newspaper statements“ which make it hard for us to assess the claims
Scandinavian passengers didn’t speak English but they still had that european looks to them that might have given them advantages in that age. Meanwhile the Arab passengers neither fit in with language nor their looks. While there were some among middle easterners who survived the sinking, the majority of Arabs died that night and they could have been scattered around the deck as well. When Lightoller threatened men with his gun for example whom he described as „italian“ it is possible that most of them were actually the Arab men. I find it interesting yet disappointing that the Arab survivors either lied to their own families about shootings or they just took the truth to their graves. I one day hope I can research myself about their experience and ask the relatives.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I wouldn’t go as far as to say all of the reports must be unfounded when the actual survivor stories have not been told yet.

Well, there are no more survivors left and almost all the people who interacted with them in the early aftermath of the disaster are gone as well. That leaves us at a stage where more a researcher digs, greater will be the chance of anything 'new' uncovered is further from the truth. I seriously doubt if we are going to find any more genuine "actual survivor stories" but you mind find "genuine" ones as told by third parties (if you get my meaning)

Scandinavian passengers didn’t speak English but they still had that european looks to them that might have given them advantages in that age. Meanwhile the Arab passengers neither fit in with language nor their looks

To some extent that was true in 1912 but only as far as normal voyage conditions were concerned. In other words, a Third Class steward of European origins might have shown some attitude discrimination towards his Levantine charges compared with his Swedish ones as far as housekeeping tasks were concerned. But I don't believe that it would have extended to an emergency situation, especially where children were involved. The crew would have been more concerned with maintaining order and following what they believed were orders from further up, which was not always understood or followed properly.

When Lightoller threatened men with his gun for example whom he described as „italian“ it is possible that most of them were actually the Arab men.

We cannot assume that. I believe Lightoller, and other officers who brandished guns that night were trying to prevent panic and a stampede; in the darkness, they would have neither the facility nor the inclination to check the ethnic identity of the people around them. There were more important and urgent things to do.

I find it interesting yet disappointing that the Arab survivors either lied to their own families about shootings or they just took the truth to their graves. I one day hope I can research myself about their experience and ask the relatives.

While it is possible that a few survivors told embellished stories to their families, IMO most of the 'mass shooting' tales were the result of yellow journalism, distortion over the years and even frank opportunism. There are some really ludicrous stories and graphics on the web like 7 people being shot to death around Lifeboat #14, including Lowe murdering one as he sat next to his girlfriend in the boat; afterwards they are supposed to have dumped the body overboard. Then there is this hilarious cartoon where Colonel Gracie is shown threatening 3 cowering steerage passengers with his gun.....and so on.

The contemporary "relatives" that you mention would be third or fourth generation of the actual survivors and highly unlikely to have met and spoken to any personally.

 

[Sarah S]

Yes I think the chances of finding any new pieces of information become more and more unlikely. But we never know if the survivors might have written down their experiences in personal diaries or in correspondences with others which haven’t surfaced yet. So my hope is to discover something like that. And since Hammad Hassab was in the first class as an Arab it is very exciting to me. I wish to find out more about his experience on board, apart from his survival. But as the people of his time mentioned, he was a „mysterious“ person so I doubt he left many traces of what he witnessed or felt.


If I remember correctly both Lightoller and Lowe stated that the steerage passengers who tried to rush the boat were „dagos“ or italian. But if I’m not mistaken, there weren’t even that many italians on board (11 passengers I think) so I doubt it was them who were rushing the boats. The only other race I assume they could have mistaken as italians would be the Arabs.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

If I remember correctly both Lightoller and Lowe stated that the steerage passengers who tried to rush the boat were „dagos“ or italian. But if I’m not mistaken, there weren’t even that many italians on board (11 passengers I think) so I doubt it was them who were rushing the boats. The only other race I assume they could have mistaken as italians would be the Arabs.

The problem with that assumption is that Lowe left the Titanic on board Lifeboat #14 around 01:25 am and while there was some disturbance around that boat, I doubt if he could have identified the ethnic features - real or assumed - in the limited light and under those circumstances. Also, Lightoller was active only on the port side and a lot of Middle Eastern people were likely around Collapsible C on the starboard side. My theory is that those references to "Dagoes", "Crazed Italians" etc had more to do with the perceived behaviour - excitability and near panic - of the people involved than their physical appearance per se. Also, remember that there were 30+ largely unaccounted for Bulgarians on board and native Balkan people are not that different looking from Greeks and Italians.

The other factor we have to consider is that 1912 was around the time where a lot of Middle Eastern people were becoming more and more self-aware and gradually moving away from considering the White Man as the proverbial "Sahib". That might have resulted in a lot of resentment at the way the Europeans looked down upon Arabs and such with a supercilious attitude - not just on board the Titanic but in general. That in turn could have paved the way for exaggerations and embellishments of what happened on board the sinking Titanic; Murdoch's two warning shots into the air could easily have translated over time into several people being shot in the vicinity of Collapsible C and so on. So, given the time and circumstances, we may never know what actually happened.

 

[Sarah S]

The problem with that assumption is that Lowe left the Titanic on board Lifeboat #14 around 01:25 am and while there was some disturbance around that boat, I doubt if he could have identified the ethnic features - real or assumed - in the limited light and under those circumstances. Also, Lightoller was active only on the port side and a lot of Middle Eastern people were likely around Collapsible C on the starboard side. My theory is that those references to "Dagoes", "Crazed Italians" etc had more to do with the perceived behaviour - excitability and near panic - of the people involved than their physical appearance per se. Also, remember that there were 30+ largely unaccounted for Bulgarians on board and native Balkan people are not that different looking from Greeks and Italians.

It was possibly a mix of people with different ethnic backgrounds. Not to forget that just a few metres away from boat 14 there was Officer Moody trying to make himself comprehensible to a bunch of female foreigners who didn’t speak his language so that they would enter the boat, as reported by Violet Jessop. Since Lebanese and Swedish were the largest non-english speaking race on board, I think the case could be made that many arabs were also among them on the Starboard side whom Moody tried to convince to enter. I haven’t heard yet about stories from the Bulgarians on board though.
But I also agree that Lowe made his assumptions more based on racial stereotypes of their behaviour rather than physical appearance.

The other factor we have to consider is that 1912 was around the time where a lot of Middle Eastern people were becoming more and more self-aware and gradually moving away from considering the White Man as the proverbial "Sahib". That might have resulted in a lot of resentment at the way the Europeans looked down upon Arabs and such with a supercilious attitude - not just on board the Titanic but in general. That in turn could have paved the way for exaggerations and embellishments of what happened on board the sinking Titanic; Murdoch's two warning shots into the air could easily have translated over time into several people being shot in the vicinity of Collapsible C and so on. So, given the time and circumstances, we may never know what actually happened.

I doubt there is much evidence to proof the Arabs on board of the Titanic held any subconscious resentment towards the Europeans on board. We really know too little about their experience in general or what they actually told the journalists

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I doubt there is much evidence to proof the Arabs on board of the Titanic held any subconscious resentment towards the Europeans on board

I was talking about the prevalent changing atmosphere of the time of people of the so-called "Third World" towards the West in general and not specifically of the Arabs on board the Titanic. While that feeling was certainly there, it was not uniform and showed wide variations depending on the countries involved, which included the Indian Subcontinent where I am originally from. What I was saying that Arabs and others on board the Titanic could have been part of that ongoing change of attitude - like a microcosm of a much larger society - and that in turn would have influenced the mindset of the survivors from among them and the relatives/families of the victims.

We cannot quantify or obtain "evidence" for prevailing collective subconscious feelings within an Ethnic group but can merely wonder about it depending on our interpretation of their words/actions at a given timeframe. But yes, our conjectures may only be partly right.

I haven’t heard yet about stories from the Bulgarians on board

Neither have I, except for a few posts in another thread. Since I felt that discussions about Bulgarians of the Titanic would be more interesting and appropriate in that other thread, I carried your quote over. You may find the thread interesting.

There were at least 33 Bulgarians on board and none survived. As I said, they could easily have been part of the "Dagos" as disdainfully referred to by some crew.