Jack Grimm Expeditions (1980, 81, 83)

[Cam Houseman]

Does anyone remember the Jack Grimm expeditions? from what I read, it was quite the circus. What were your opinions?

for anyone who doesn't know who Jack Grimm was (he died in 1998, poor guy)
Jack Grimm was certainly an eccentric guy. A real go getter! He had previously funded expeditions to find the Loch Ness Monster, Noah's Arc, Bigfoot, and more. To fund this, he raised money from friends, made a book, and got Orson Wells to make a documentary. (he sort of acted like he already found the ship, according to Bob Ballard)
He had two consultants, Fred Spiess and William B Ryan. They nearly stayed ashore when Grimm brought a monkey named "Titan" and was trained to point at the spot where Titanic sank.
"it's either us or the Monkey" they said
"Fire the scientists"
luckily saner heads prevailed.
They set out in 1980. Bad weather plagued them the whole trip. They went during July/August. They finally had to turn away when they lost the equipment they were using, (Sea Marc Sonar) which was limited and untested technology, during a sharp turn, and destroyed the magnetometer. Although, they went back with 14 possible objects identified by the Sonar.

In 1981, they went back and went through the targets, but they were all natural features. Bad weather also bothered them. Although, they found something, to Jack, looked like a Propeller. When they returned to Boston he announced he found Titanic, but the other scientists did not think so.
supposed "propeller"

In 1983 they again went back. This time, they passed over the wreck, but the Sea Marc did not detect it. they also came within 1.5 miles within the wreck. Bad weather brought an end to the expedition.

What were your opinions on his expeditions? What did you think at the time?
I asked Mike Standart (a very good friend and a regular) about what he thought. his thoughts are posted here with his permission (nothing is authoritative)
"I remember Jack Grimm. I thought there was a lot of wishful thinking on his part. He made a very game attempt to locate the Titanic's wreck, but his claims notwithstanding, he failed."
"He pretty much got ignored after awhile. Thing is: He had the right idea to use sleds with remotes to look for the ship, but he missed. He may or may not have come close but he still missed."

can't wait to hear other's opinions on him. Must've been quite interesting!

 

[Steven Christian]

I remember some about him. Give him credit. He liked adventures. Back in the 70's/80's there was a group called the explorers club or group or something like that. Guy's with F.U. money that went around doing stuff like he did. Don't know if they still exist. At least they didn't sit on their asses and just count their money. I admire them. As for the monkey maybe he got that idea from the experiment where they had a monkey pick stocks to invest in and the monkey out performed all the "experts" with something like a 10% or so better return than them. Others had found Titanic before Ballard but they didn't know what they had found or for some reason kept it a secret.
Edited by me...I went and looked but couldn't find the documentary I saw once. It covered Jack Grimms attempts and others before Ballard found it. It also had a segment about either the R.N or U.S.N. that mapped it magnetically I believe it was but they didn't follow up on it as they were looking for soviet subs and didn't care about other stuff at the time.

 

[Cam Houseman]

I remember some about him. Give him credit. He liked adventures. Back in the 70's/80's there was a group called the explorers club or group or something like that. Guy's with F.U. money that went around doing stuff like he did. Don't know if they still exist. At least they didn't sit on their asses and just count their money. I admire them. As for the monkey maybe he got that idea from the experiment where they had a monkey pick stocks to invest in and the monkey out performed all the "experts" with something like a 10% or so better return than them. Others had found Titanic before Ballard but they didn't know what they had found or for some reason kept it a secret.
Edited by me...I went and looked but couldn't find the documentary I saw once. It covered Jack Grimms attempts and others before Ballard found it. It also had a segment about either the R.N or U.S.N. that mapped it magnetically I believe it was but they didn't follow up on it as they were looking for soviet subs and didn't care about other stuff at the time.

oh no, I think he would've definitely found her if not for the weather and the equipment issues! good for him for wanting to go find her, and tried 3 times!

>Edited by me...I went and looked but couldn't find the documentary I saw once. It covered Jack Grimms attempts and others before Ballard found it. It also had a segment about either the R.N or U.S.N. that mapped it magnetically I believe it was but they didn't follow up on it as they were looking for soviet subs and didn't care about other stuff at the time.<

here!! youtube:5Fkpp2rSMDM enjoy

>Don't know if they still exist. At least they didn't sit on their asses and just count their money. I admire them.<

you spelled RMST Inc wrong

Bill Sauder is exempt, he's a sort of personal hero for me. I have decided, when I get out of High School, to be a Marine Biologist, and even (maybe) move to WHOI and apply. There's a lot of maritime stuff where I live, so if that doesn't work out, I can stay here. People like Bill, Parks, Jim, Sam, Charlie Pellegrino have helped me realize what I want to do as a living

anyway, sorry for rambling, enioy your doc

 

[mark]

It's on VHS i have the double tape set. Also a single tape.

 

[Rose F.]

Others had found Titanic before Ballard but they didn't know what they had found or for some reason kept it a secret.

My personal favourite of the "possibly knew about the wreck before Ballard's discovery" stories is the supposed reason why news of the wreck's discovery broke out so soon after (possibly even slightly before) they actually found the wreck, as documented by Paul Lee:

Jack was allowed access to the Observer Newspaper's new computer, which he determined was useless for the task and instead opted to find out the Titanic's position by hand - using dead reckoning. He used information such as Boxhall's CQD position, how far the lifeboats could have rowed, the direction of currents (knowing that the wreck site was likely on the border of the Gulf Stream and the Labrador Current), how much the clocks had been retarded during the westward passage and the location of nearby ships. He obtained a lot of useful information from Wyn Craig Wade's book "Titanic: End of a Dream". When the location of the wreck site was finally revealed (officially), John said that he was only 50 yards off. John wrote this information down in a letter to Alan Road c.1983, which is now in storage, pending Alan's house move.

John told Dr.Marty Klein and Terry Snyder, of the USAF (their expertise was locating downed aircraft with sonar) c.1983 of his computations, and in January 1985, Marty contacted John to tell him that a French/American expedition to locate the Titanic wreck would be underway that year - the calculated wrecksite was kept hidden from the French, presumably to make them waste their time in the search, John felt. However, in conversation with me, Marty dismisses this story, and is suspicious of John's claims and his story (amongst others): incidentally, the two had met, but many years before.

One of Johns' colleagues, Ferris Morton, in the Admiralty (who, according to "The Observer" of 15/9/85, was the Royal Navy's chief salvage operator and expressed an interest in raising the wreck, post-discovery) was a bit unsure about the calculated wreck location: he asked "Have you got it right?", to which John replied in the affirmative. Morton replied, "If you haven't, I've never heard of you". It was Ferris that was Alan Road's 1985 Admiralty source in 1985 that confirmed that the wreck "had" been found before it had been done so. Seemingly sure of John's calculated wreck site, they knew that the ship would be found in the next few days.

 

[Cam Houseman]

My personal favourite of the "possibly knew about the wreck before Ballard's discovery" stories is the supposed reason why news of the wreck's discovery broke out so soon after (possibly even slightly before) they actually found the wreck, as documented by Paul Lee:

By the way, I actually found color footage of the supposed prop blade, if anyone is interested

 

[Steven Christian]

My personal favourite of the "possibly knew about the wreck before Ballard's discovery" stories is the supposed reason why news of the wreck's discovery broke out so soon after (possibly even slightly before) they actually found the wreck, as documented by Paul Lee:

That's interesting info. Thanks for posting it. I'm assuming Jack/John is Grimm. Or do I have that wrong?

 

[Rose F.]

That's interesting info. Thanks for posting it. I'm assuming Jack/John is Grimm. Or do I have that wrong?

John Pierce, the guy who salvaged the Lustinaia and raised the Rainbow Warrior, and who also claimed he could use those same techniques to raise the Titanic when her wreck was found. Just you talking about other stories of people trying to find the ship reminded me of that story.

Unfortunately Jack Grimm did not have as solid a claim to finding the wreck as some others do.

 

[Steven Christian]

John Pierce, the guy who salvaged the Lustinaia and raised the Rainbow Warrior, and who also claimed he could use those same techniques to raise the Titanic when her wreck was found. Just you talking about other stories of people trying to find the ship reminded me of that story.

Unfortunately Jack Grimm did not have as solid a claim to finding the wreck as some others do.

Thanks. I was getting a little confused as Jack/John are often interchanged. You know like Jack/John Kennedy. Thanks for clearing that up. Cheers.

 

[Cam Houseman]

Thanks. I was getting a little confused as Jack/John are often interchanged. You know like Jack/John Kennedy. Thanks for clearing that up. Cheers.

So Steven, what did you think about the documentary? Pretty cool huh!!

 

[Steven Christian]

So Steven, what did you think about the documentary? Pretty cool huh!!

Yes I liked it. I downloaded it to keep in the files. Saw that a long time ago. But there's another one out there too that I remember but I haven't been able to find it. It covered more of the military that supposedly found it but kept it under wraps for various reasons. Whether they knew it was Titanic or just a wreck they marked I don't know. They had more important things on their agenda and I'm sure wouldn't divulge the tech they were using. At least in the good old days of the cold war.

 

[Cam Houseman]

Yes I liked it. I downloaded it to keep in the files. Saw that a long time ago. But there's another one out there too that I remember but I haven't been able to find it. It covered more of the military that supposedly found it but kept it under wraps for various reasons. Whether they knew it was Titanic or just a wreck they marked I don't know. They had more important things on their agenda and I'm sure wouldn't divulge the tech they were using. At least in the good old days of the cold war.

If you want, I located a snippet of raw footage of Mr. Grimm locating the “propeller” in 1981

what do you think the ship’s wreck would be like of Grimm found her? Maybe she’d be in pieces, because Ballard called for Congress to protect her, and I wonder if Grimm wouldn’t. I think in 1995 Grimm did try to go out there and salvage things from the ship but George Tulloch said that was a hard N-O

 

[Steven Christian]

If you want, I located a snippet of raw footage of Mr. Grimm locating the “propeller” in 1981

what do you think the ship’s wreck would be like of Grimm found her? Maybe she’d be in pieces, because Ballard called for Congress to protect her, and I wonder if Grimm wouldn’t. I think in 1995 Grimm did try to go out there and salvage things from the ship but George Tulloch said that was a hard N-O

I'm guessing you meant "be in pieces" as that Grimm would have tore her apart to get artifacts? Simple answer is I don't know. If he did find her and was granted rights to the ship it would depend on whatever judge he got and what restrictions that judge placed on him. Or he could have played the game and went judge shopping to get what he wanted. Who knows. It is only speculation as to what would have happened in the case of Grimm. If he did mess up like that there probably would have been a dust up about it but it wouldn't have lasted very long. It would have been forgotten pretty quickly. To be a little cynical and honest about Titanic, 99.999% of the people didn't care about Titanic until Jack and Rose came along. Cheers.

 

[Cam Houseman]

I'm guessing you meant "be in pieces" as that Grimm would have tore her apart to get artifacts? Simple answer is I don't know. If he did find her and was granted rights to the ship it would depend on whatever judge he got and what restrictions that judge placed on him. Or he could have played the game and went judge shopping to get what he wanted. Who knows. It is only speculation as to what would have happened in the case of Grimm. If he did mess up like that there probably would have been a dust up about it but it wouldn't have lasted very long. It would have been forgotten pretty quickly. To be a little cynical and honest about Titanic, 99.999% of the people didn't care about Titanic until Jack and Rose came along. Cheers.

Said it perfectly Steven. Yes that is what I mean, thank you

imagine Jim Cameron suing him because he brought all the equipment out to titanic just to find the bow and stern are nearly indistinguishable, whoopsie

 

[VanessaMcHugh]

Cam, could you tell me the name of the documentary so I can try and track it down? The link you've posted now says the user no longer has a YouTube account. I vaguely remember reading about a possible discovery by the military but I can't remember where/when.

Thanks

Vanessa