Jack Thayer's account

[Mike Poirier]

In Thayer's account her remembers a fellow who downed a bottle of Gordon's gin. And understood he forced himself into a lifeboat. And that he heard that the man was a congressman from VIriginia or West Virginia. Who was this person?

 

[Mike Poirier]

After rereading the evidence,
I am going to take a guess myself. His statement answers this for us when he said someone later told him that the man was a senator or congressman for Virginia. Robert Daniel eventually became a senator for Virginia. Or maybe the fact that he married the daughter of a congressman Eloise Hughes Smith. Either way he published this long after the carpathia- so it seems the answer could Robert Daniel. Any input is appreciated.

 

[Jan C. Nielsen]

Michael:
According to the description given on this site the man drinking the gin, whom Thayer recognized later, was the baker, Charles Joughlin. Joughlin didn't force his way into any lifeboat. He was rescued, but apparently spent hours in the water. Daniels was a Virginia state senator, not a Congressman, for Virginia. Hope this helps.

 

[Mike Poirier]

That is according to the site. According to his account he says the man was later a senator or congressman for Virginia. I think it more points to Daniel. Have you read his account???

 

[Jan C. Nielsen]

Michael:
Yes, I have read Jack Thayer's account. I still think "the site" is right and Thayer or Thayer's "someone" source is mistaken. Daniel almost certainly left on Lifeboat 3, which according to "Titanic: An Illustrated History" left the ship at 1:00 a.m. This is well before the incident with the man downing the gin occurred - - after 1:25 a.m. when only two lifeboats were left. The only survivor whom I've heard about who really drank a lot of gin was Joughlin, and it saved his life. Further, the description which Thayer provides is vague. He says: "Someone told me afterwards that he was a State Senator or Congressman from Virginia or West Virginia." This doesn't sound like any reliable verbatim quote from a knowledgeable source. Even more telling, Thayer's account was an informal manuscript written for members of his family. It was never intended as an authoritative publication that might be scrutinized by Titanica enthusiasts. As such, Thayer very likely made leisurely remarks about the Titanic's sinking, and about some of the passengers, that he did know were, in fact, correct. Finally, having read about Daniel and his family, in the obituary posted on this site - - he doesn't impress as the type of guy who would drink a whole bottle of gin in one swig, then go meet a lady on the Carpathia, and marry her. In sum, that "someone" whom Thayer referred to could easily have been mistaken. So, I have to agree with the site, not Thayer's account.

 

[Mike Poirier]

Joe:
First off Robert Daniel died at the young age of 56 of cirrhosis of the liver caused by drinking.And keep in mind that Thayer wrote the account 28 years after living through the event. Time frames are easily mixed up after so many years. He must have kept track of Daniel as he wasn't a senator aboard the Titanic. ( keep in mind they were both Philadelphians at the time of the disaster ) If you read accounts, you'll notice that survivors leave out names in order to protect the privacy of the person they are talking about. And that is probably what happened with Daniel and Thayer. He may have inquired on how the man escaped aboard the Carpathia and if you check Daniel's many accounts he has several different versions of how he was saved. It is the concensus of most histoprians and myself that the man probably wasn't Joughin and odds are was Daniel. I hope you find this answer helpful.

 

[Peter Engberg-Klarström]

Dear Michael, I always had a feeling this man was William Carter who left the ship rather late. I was always under the impression that boat C left the Titanic a bit later than generally accepted, perhaps around 2.00 or something to that effect. I have read Thayer's account several times, and there is nothing to say that he was referring to Robert Daniel, who left in boat 3 according to a woman on that boat who was in conversation with Mr Daniel in that lifeboat.

Peter

 

[Jan C. Nielsen]

Michael, Peter:
I suspect that the connection between Daniel, as the Virginia State Senator, and his death in 1940 connected to "drinking" may have prompted Thayer's someone's reference to him in the 1940 account. Thayer wrote this before "Night To Remember" was published or made into a movie. As such, Joughlin's heavy drinking story, and survival, may not have been widely known. Thus, in the context of wealthy social circles, when Thayer's "someone" heard of a Titanic passenger's death from "drinking," they probably made a connection to the guy Thayer had been describing for years on the Titanic - - unbeknownst of Joughlin's exploits. I don't believe Thayer and Daniel were colleagues; Thayer was 17, Daniel, 29; although Daniel spent some time in New York and Philadelphia, from 1926 on he lived exclusively in Virginia. Frankly, I think Thayer left out Daniel's name from the account because he wasn't sure that the "someone" was right. Do you know where Daniel got the name "Gamon de Pycombe" for his champion French bulldog? Is this the name of some important person? Interestingly, after the Titanic disaster, Danile suffered through three marriages and died from drinking, this makes him a candidate for inclusion in the conversation on "Survivors Suicides."

 

[Jan C. Nielsen]

Michael, Peter:
I suspect that the connection between Daniel, as the Virginia State Senator, and his death in 1940 connected to "drinking" may have prompted Thayer's someone's reference to him in the 1940 account. Thayer wrote this before "Night To Remember" was published or made into a movie. As such, Joughlin's heavy drinking story, and survival, may not have been widely known. Thus, in the context of wealthy social circles, when Thayer's "someone" heard of a Titanic passenger's death from "drinking," they probably made a connection to the guy Thayer had been describing for years on the Titanic - - unbeknownst of Joughlin's exploits. I don't believe Thayer and Daniel were colleagues; Thayer was 17, Daniel, 29; although Daniel spent some time in New York and Philadelphia, from 1926 on he lived exclusively in Virginia. Frankly, I think Thayer left out Daniel's name from the account because he wasn't sure that the "someone" was right. Do you know where Daniel got the name "Gamon de Pycombe" for his champion French bulldog? Is this the name of some important person? Interestingly, after the Titanic disaster, Danile suffered through three marriages and died from drinking, this makes him a candidate for inclusion in the conversation on "Survivors Suicides."

 

[Mike Poirier]

Joe:
The age of a passenger didn't matter. Both coming from well known Philadelphian families they were probably acquainted with each other. If you read his account ( keeping in mind his account had nothing to do with a social contact )he obviously knew the man. Many survivors ( plus the fact many of them were well aquainted beforehand ) kept in touch. And to Peter- he does specifically say that the man was a senator or congressman from Virginia. Bill Carter lived his life out in Philadelphia playing golf and polo ( Bill Sloper attests to that ). Thayer certainly would never confuse Carter with Daniel and say that Carter was a senator. It doesn't matter that Carter left late. Thayer may have put the incident in the later part of the account, but it could have hppened anytime after 12:45 when Thayer and Long were wandering the boatdeck. He may have confused the time period after 28 years, but certainly not the person.

 

[mark]

Does anyone know about Mr. Thayer's family living today. I know alittle of them but need help. Please email me, I think b/c I am new to this. This is very important.

Mark

 

[Michael David Thompson]

I am doing a project for my history class. Does anone know how big the cups aboard the Titanic were? How much liquid they could hold?