B-rad
Member
I have a theory that I would like to throw out there dealing with the flooding seen by Steward Johnstone. According to most publications, Johnstone saw the flooding of the mail room around the same time as Boxhall. Boxhall saw the flooding just before Steward Wheat, as Boxhall places it, “...within a couple of feet of G deck, the deck I was standing on. [Q15374]
Wheat would recall during the British inquiry that he was just about to turn in [Q10875], his room being on the 'port side' [Q10883] of 'F deck down by the turkish baths' [Q10882], when he thought the ship 'had cast one of her propeller blades'. [Q10879] He then roused his mate, asking, “...if he had heard any noise, and he said, 'No'.” [Q10890] He then ventured to E deck [Q10891], where he, “...met the night watchman. I think his name is Johnson. He told me she was making water badly forward.” [Q10893]
He then proceeded forward on E deck. [Q10898-89] He would say, “I went down to the Post Office room, which is down on G. You will find a stairway leading from E down to the Post Office and baggage room.' [Q10900] I saw the mail men dragging bags of mail up, which I took to be the registered mail. The water was already on that deck. [Q10910] ...it was just making the stairs then, just making G deck. [Q10914] It was almost flush with G deck when I got on it.” [Q10917] He would place his going to the mail room at, “Ten minutes or a quarter of an hour,” after the accident, [Q10901] or 11:50pm-11:55pm.
Johnstone would state in his testimony that he was in, “The first saloon. I was night watchman; I had charge of the night watch.” [Q3343] He
mistook the deck he was on stating, “No, I took E – what they call the saloon – the reception room and the pantry, on.” [Q3357] These rooms, along with the first class dining saloon (where he confirms he was, in question 3353), were located on D deck, not E.
He would state feeling the impact, and then sending a greaser to go access the situation, with the greaser returning stating, “I think it is a bit hot.” [Q3363] He then spotted Andrews going through the saloon towards the engine room. [Q3376] Three or four minutes later the Captain followed. [Q3371] He then states, “...then I followed Mr. Andrews after he came up from the engine room.” [Q3367] When asked if he followed the Captain, he would state, “No; I waited a minute and followed Mr. Andrews.” [Q3377] Followed by, “Mr. Andrews went through the saloon after this man came and told me it was a bit thick. I followed Mr. Andrews and went down to E deck to see if Duscheck was there. He was down there on watch in that deck. I went down to E deck and saw Mr. Andrews go down by the baggage room or mail room. One door goes down and the other does not.” [Q3378]
So when did Johnston make his way to E deck? Was it after Andrews passed through before the Captain? Is this why Johnston says he didn't follow the Captain, but followed Andrews? This ties nicely with his answer in question 3378. Would Johnston had known that the men were heading towards the engine room if he did not go down to E deck at this time? In the inquiry, a line of questioning would reveal:
3372. Through the saloon you were in?
He had to come down through the stairs to get down to the engine room to get on to E deck; he had to go down through those stairs.
3373. And then he gets into the alleyway and got to the engine room?
Just turn to the left and he is in it.
3374. Did he go in that direction?
I do not know. I know he went down.
What did Johnstone not know? Where they went after heading below E deck, if he in fact witnessed both men heading towards the engine room. Or, did he not know where they went after heading down from D deck, because he stayed on D deck?
In Johnstone's directions of Andrews route to the mail room, he makes it seem that Andrews did in fact come back up to D deck, stating, “It is a little bit farther forward, past the reception room,” which could be in reference to the stairway on D deck leading down to E deck, at roughly forward frame 74, on the starboard side. Would Andrews have went to E deck, and then back up to D, and then back down to E deck, to see the flooded mail room, instead of going down the working alley? Johnstone's answer to question 3367, in which he states, “then I followed Mr. Andrews after he came up from the engine room,” makes this sound plausible.
This is important to know because Johnston would state that he saw Andrews, “...speaking to some ladies, and they were all in a bunch and he said he thought it would be all right. He said, 'Be easy, it will be all right.' I asked him, and he said; 'All right.' [Q3400] …all first class passengers just at the corner of the reception room, down the companion stairs. [Q34001] When I heard him it was just a quarter of an hour after she struck, not much more.[3595]”
Regardless of what route Andrews took, Andrews talking to passengers on D deck, means that Johnstone could not have followed Andrews to the mail room before this 15 minutes, as Andrews himself did not go to the mail room before this 15 minutes. Johnstone states that he went to his room on E deck after seeing the flooding [Q3403], meaning that he did not follow Andrews back up to D deck (if in fact that's what Andrews did), after he saw the flooding. Therefore, there is no reason to believe that Johnstone saw Andrews speaking to these passengers after both witnessed flooding in the mail room.
In all, two sets of scenarios develop. The first one has Johnstone seeing Andrews go to E deck. He sees Captain Smith going the same route. He apparently assumes Andrews and the Captain head towards the engine room once they make there way down from D to E deck. Johnstone remains on D deck. Andrews comes back up to D deck and talks to the passengers. Andrews heads toward the stairway at roughly forward frame 74. Johnstone follows a minute later. He sees Andrews head towards the mail room via the two stairways on E deck between forward frames 73 – 81, on the starboard side. This is taken from his statement, “I went down to E deck and saw Andrews go down by the baggage room or mail room. One door goes down and the other does not.” [Q3378] I do not know if there are doors on E deck to these stairwells, but there is a door located on the bottom of the stairway going down, onto F deck. It is important to note that Johnstone states that he saw Andrews go into the mail room, and not that he followed him into the mail room.
Johnstone looks for Mr. Dodd (or Duscheck?). Sometime, most likely very soon, after following Andrews down to E deck, Wheat runs into Johnstone. This is right after the 'quarter of an hour' Johnstone said he saw Andrews talking to the passengers, which is close enough to Wheat's maximum estimate of 15 minutes; give or take on both accounts.
Johnstone would relay a different conversation happening between him and Wheat, one that has no mention of flooding. Johnstone would state, “...he [Wheat] said, 'What is it?' I said, 'I think it is a bit serious.'” [Q3397] This is the same nature of message Johnstone got from the greaser. Along with this, seeing Andrews and the Captain go below, it would be obvious that the situation was not good. Possibly having seen Andrews head towards the mail room, Johnston makes mention of something forward, which is what prompts Wheat to go forward, and later Johnstone himself, being that both men thought the ship had lost a propeller blade.
The other scenario would be Johnstone seeing Andrews talk to the passengers and head down to E deck. After a minute Johnstone makes his way down to E deck. Sees the captain come down the same route. He sees Andrews and the Captain head towards the engine room. He looks for Mr. Dodd (or Duscheck?) He the sees Andrews come back up and head towards the mail room, past where the reception room would be on D deck, and goes to the two stairways on E deck between forward frames 73 – 81, on the starboard side.
Sometime, most likely very soon, after following Andrews down to E deck, Wheat runs into Johnstone. This being right after the 'quarter of an hour' Johnstone said he saw Andrews talking to the passengers, it is close enough to Wheat's max estimate of 15 minutes, give or take on both accounts.
Johnstone would relay a different conversation happening between him and Wheat, one that has no mention of flooding. Johnstone would state, “...he [Wheat] said, 'What is it?' I said, 'I think it is a bit serious.'” [Q3397] This is the same nature of message Johnstone got from the greaser. Along with this, Johnstone seeing Andrews and the Captain go below, it would be obvious that the situation would not have been good. The only obvious question then becomes, why did Wheat go forward if he thought it was a propeller blade? Did Andrews go to the mail room first? This would put it past the quarter of an hour mark.
Things get confusing within Johnstone's testimony when he claims that the 'baggage room' (as suggested by the committee), [Q3385] and/or the 'mail room' [Q3393] (as he suggests and complies with when stating, “Well, they were handling mails or something; when I looked there was water there then.”), [Q3384] was on F deck, and not G deck. He would also make the claim that the squash court was only one deck high (F deck), while, in fact, the squash court cut through both F and G deck. Johnstone, it seems, was unfamiliar with this part of the ship, for when asked rather or not the 1st class baggage room was on G deck, he would state, “No, I do not think so. I never went further than that, and I think it was in that.” [Q3390]
We do know that the mail clerks were removing mail to higher grounds during the sinking, in the vain attempt to save it. It also seems apparent that Johnstone was on E deck looking down the stairs when he saw the flooding. From there he could see the squash court, and knowing at least that the mail room was next to the squash court, and thinking the squash court was one deck high, he possibly could have believed he was looking into the mail room. If this is so, than that places the flooding he saw to be around F deck.
Johnstone when asked how long it was after the shock that he saw the water, would state, “I went down to call the second steward, Mr. Dodd I took plenty of time and it must have been a good twenty-five minutes after I met Mr. Wheat coming up...” [3397] If Wheat went immediately forward to the post office, and this was 10 to 15 minutes (11:50 – 11:55) after the collision, than 25 minutes after meeting Wheat, would place Johnstone's sighting of the flooding around 12:15-12:20. This is 35-40 minutes after the collision. If Johnston saw water on F deck, than this is close to Robinson's testimony that water was 6 steps to E deck, though Johnstone's time estimates are obviously 5 to 10 minutes after Robinson's estimates, and Robinson obviously saw water much higher than what Johnstone's testimony possibly allows.
Therefore, the question is, could Johnstone have seen flooding later than previously believed? It is important to note that the Committee claimed the flooding occurred lower, around G deck, not Johnstone, who holds out that it was higher, on F deck.
Wheat would recall during the British inquiry that he was just about to turn in [Q10875], his room being on the 'port side' [Q10883] of 'F deck down by the turkish baths' [Q10882], when he thought the ship 'had cast one of her propeller blades'. [Q10879] He then roused his mate, asking, “...if he had heard any noise, and he said, 'No'.” [Q10890] He then ventured to E deck [Q10891], where he, “...met the night watchman. I think his name is Johnson. He told me she was making water badly forward.” [Q10893]
He then proceeded forward on E deck. [Q10898-89] He would say, “I went down to the Post Office room, which is down on G. You will find a stairway leading from E down to the Post Office and baggage room.' [Q10900] I saw the mail men dragging bags of mail up, which I took to be the registered mail. The water was already on that deck. [Q10910] ...it was just making the stairs then, just making G deck. [Q10914] It was almost flush with G deck when I got on it.” [Q10917] He would place his going to the mail room at, “Ten minutes or a quarter of an hour,” after the accident, [Q10901] or 11:50pm-11:55pm.
Johnstone would state in his testimony that he was in, “The first saloon. I was night watchman; I had charge of the night watch.” [Q3343] He
mistook the deck he was on stating, “No, I took E – what they call the saloon – the reception room and the pantry, on.” [Q3357] These rooms, along with the first class dining saloon (where he confirms he was, in question 3353), were located on D deck, not E.
He would state feeling the impact, and then sending a greaser to go access the situation, with the greaser returning stating, “I think it is a bit hot.” [Q3363] He then spotted Andrews going through the saloon towards the engine room. [Q3376] Three or four minutes later the Captain followed. [Q3371] He then states, “...then I followed Mr. Andrews after he came up from the engine room.” [Q3367] When asked if he followed the Captain, he would state, “No; I waited a minute and followed Mr. Andrews.” [Q3377] Followed by, “Mr. Andrews went through the saloon after this man came and told me it was a bit thick. I followed Mr. Andrews and went down to E deck to see if Duscheck was there. He was down there on watch in that deck. I went down to E deck and saw Mr. Andrews go down by the baggage room or mail room. One door goes down and the other does not.” [Q3378]
So when did Johnston make his way to E deck? Was it after Andrews passed through before the Captain? Is this why Johnston says he didn't follow the Captain, but followed Andrews? This ties nicely with his answer in question 3378. Would Johnston had known that the men were heading towards the engine room if he did not go down to E deck at this time? In the inquiry, a line of questioning would reveal:
3372. Through the saloon you were in?
He had to come down through the stairs to get down to the engine room to get on to E deck; he had to go down through those stairs.
3373. And then he gets into the alleyway and got to the engine room?
Just turn to the left and he is in it.
3374. Did he go in that direction?
I do not know. I know he went down.
What did Johnstone not know? Where they went after heading below E deck, if he in fact witnessed both men heading towards the engine room. Or, did he not know where they went after heading down from D deck, because he stayed on D deck?
In Johnstone's directions of Andrews route to the mail room, he makes it seem that Andrews did in fact come back up to D deck, stating, “It is a little bit farther forward, past the reception room,” which could be in reference to the stairway on D deck leading down to E deck, at roughly forward frame 74, on the starboard side. Would Andrews have went to E deck, and then back up to D, and then back down to E deck, to see the flooded mail room, instead of going down the working alley? Johnstone's answer to question 3367, in which he states, “then I followed Mr. Andrews after he came up from the engine room,” makes this sound plausible.
This is important to know because Johnston would state that he saw Andrews, “...speaking to some ladies, and they were all in a bunch and he said he thought it would be all right. He said, 'Be easy, it will be all right.' I asked him, and he said; 'All right.' [Q3400] …all first class passengers just at the corner of the reception room, down the companion stairs. [Q34001] When I heard him it was just a quarter of an hour after she struck, not much more.[3595]”
Regardless of what route Andrews took, Andrews talking to passengers on D deck, means that Johnstone could not have followed Andrews to the mail room before this 15 minutes, as Andrews himself did not go to the mail room before this 15 minutes. Johnstone states that he went to his room on E deck after seeing the flooding [Q3403], meaning that he did not follow Andrews back up to D deck (if in fact that's what Andrews did), after he saw the flooding. Therefore, there is no reason to believe that Johnstone saw Andrews speaking to these passengers after both witnessed flooding in the mail room.
In all, two sets of scenarios develop. The first one has Johnstone seeing Andrews go to E deck. He sees Captain Smith going the same route. He apparently assumes Andrews and the Captain head towards the engine room once they make there way down from D to E deck. Johnstone remains on D deck. Andrews comes back up to D deck and talks to the passengers. Andrews heads toward the stairway at roughly forward frame 74. Johnstone follows a minute later. He sees Andrews head towards the mail room via the two stairways on E deck between forward frames 73 – 81, on the starboard side. This is taken from his statement, “I went down to E deck and saw Andrews go down by the baggage room or mail room. One door goes down and the other does not.” [Q3378] I do not know if there are doors on E deck to these stairwells, but there is a door located on the bottom of the stairway going down, onto F deck. It is important to note that Johnstone states that he saw Andrews go into the mail room, and not that he followed him into the mail room.
Johnstone looks for Mr. Dodd (or Duscheck?). Sometime, most likely very soon, after following Andrews down to E deck, Wheat runs into Johnstone. This is right after the 'quarter of an hour' Johnstone said he saw Andrews talking to the passengers, which is close enough to Wheat's maximum estimate of 15 minutes; give or take on both accounts.
Johnstone would relay a different conversation happening between him and Wheat, one that has no mention of flooding. Johnstone would state, “...he [Wheat] said, 'What is it?' I said, 'I think it is a bit serious.'” [Q3397] This is the same nature of message Johnstone got from the greaser. Along with this, seeing Andrews and the Captain go below, it would be obvious that the situation was not good. Possibly having seen Andrews head towards the mail room, Johnston makes mention of something forward, which is what prompts Wheat to go forward, and later Johnstone himself, being that both men thought the ship had lost a propeller blade.
The other scenario would be Johnstone seeing Andrews talk to the passengers and head down to E deck. After a minute Johnstone makes his way down to E deck. Sees the captain come down the same route. He sees Andrews and the Captain head towards the engine room. He looks for Mr. Dodd (or Duscheck?) He the sees Andrews come back up and head towards the mail room, past where the reception room would be on D deck, and goes to the two stairways on E deck between forward frames 73 – 81, on the starboard side.
Sometime, most likely very soon, after following Andrews down to E deck, Wheat runs into Johnstone. This being right after the 'quarter of an hour' Johnstone said he saw Andrews talking to the passengers, it is close enough to Wheat's max estimate of 15 minutes, give or take on both accounts.
Johnstone would relay a different conversation happening between him and Wheat, one that has no mention of flooding. Johnstone would state, “...he [Wheat] said, 'What is it?' I said, 'I think it is a bit serious.'” [Q3397] This is the same nature of message Johnstone got from the greaser. Along with this, Johnstone seeing Andrews and the Captain go below, it would be obvious that the situation would not have been good. The only obvious question then becomes, why did Wheat go forward if he thought it was a propeller blade? Did Andrews go to the mail room first? This would put it past the quarter of an hour mark.
Things get confusing within Johnstone's testimony when he claims that the 'baggage room' (as suggested by the committee), [Q3385] and/or the 'mail room' [Q3393] (as he suggests and complies with when stating, “Well, they were handling mails or something; when I looked there was water there then.”), [Q3384] was on F deck, and not G deck. He would also make the claim that the squash court was only one deck high (F deck), while, in fact, the squash court cut through both F and G deck. Johnstone, it seems, was unfamiliar with this part of the ship, for when asked rather or not the 1st class baggage room was on G deck, he would state, “No, I do not think so. I never went further than that, and I think it was in that.” [Q3390]
We do know that the mail clerks were removing mail to higher grounds during the sinking, in the vain attempt to save it. It also seems apparent that Johnstone was on E deck looking down the stairs when he saw the flooding. From there he could see the squash court, and knowing at least that the mail room was next to the squash court, and thinking the squash court was one deck high, he possibly could have believed he was looking into the mail room. If this is so, than that places the flooding he saw to be around F deck.
Johnstone when asked how long it was after the shock that he saw the water, would state, “I went down to call the second steward, Mr. Dodd I took plenty of time and it must have been a good twenty-five minutes after I met Mr. Wheat coming up...” [3397] If Wheat went immediately forward to the post office, and this was 10 to 15 minutes (11:50 – 11:55) after the collision, than 25 minutes after meeting Wheat, would place Johnstone's sighting of the flooding around 12:15-12:20. This is 35-40 minutes after the collision. If Johnston saw water on F deck, than this is close to Robinson's testimony that water was 6 steps to E deck, though Johnstone's time estimates are obviously 5 to 10 minutes after Robinson's estimates, and Robinson obviously saw water much higher than what Johnstone's testimony possibly allows.
Therefore, the question is, could Johnstone have seen flooding later than previously believed? It is important to note that the Committee claimed the flooding occurred lower, around G deck, not Johnstone, who holds out that it was higher, on F deck.
