Murdoch and Moody on the bridge

[Sarah S]

Good morning everyone,

After the collision happened, the captain gave several orders to his officers/crew to assess the damage or to tour the ship, then waking the off-duty officers, and the captain consulting with Andrews etc. But what happened in the meantime on the bridge? Were Moody and Murdoch still on the bridge and awaiting updates from the captain/Boxhall about the severity of the situation, did the 1st and 6th Officer maybe talk to each other about what just happened and how bad it could be? Like what did Murdoch and Moody do as the ship started to slow down/stop and everyone else touring the ship? I wonder what exchanges happened between the remaining officers on the bridge.
And who else was on the bridge with them and what do we know happened there during the timespan when the damage was inspected?


Thank you

 

[Arun Vajpey]

After the collision happened, the captain gave several orders to his officers/crew to assess the damage or to tour the ship, then waking the off-duty officers, and the captain consulting with Andrews etc. But what happened in the meantime on the bridge? Were Moody and Murdoch still on the bridge and awaiting updates from the captain/Boxhall about the severity of the situation, did the 1st and 6th Officer maybe talk to each other about what just happened and how bad it could be? Like what did Murdoch and Moody do as the ship started to slow down/stop and everyone else touring the ship? I wonder what exchanges happened between the remaining officers on the bridge.

A very good question on the lines that I have often thought about myself. Since both those Officers as well as Captain Smith died that night, we will never know for certain but a few guesses could be made.

Since both Murdoch and Moody were on duty at the time of the accident, I believe they would have been obliged to remain on watch on the bridge until such time as the Captain ordered them to do otherwise. Since the engines were briefly restarted and the Titanic made a slight headway, I assume that it would have been Murdoch who vocalized the Captain's orders to that effect. When Smith went on his inspection tour, Murdoch and Moody remained on the bridge AFAIK and it would have been natural for them to discuss among themselves what had just happened and the seriousness of the outcome. They also appear to have started taking some preliminary action.

AB Buley recalled that Murdoch ordered him to get more of his colleagues together and start uncovering the lifeboats very early. I believe Murdoch would have required Captain Smith's authorization for that action and so it follows that Smith might have been playing safe even before he found out the worst from Andrews. Moody ordered Olliver to get the list of crew lifeboat assignments (OASOG).

And who else was on the bridge with them and what do we know happened there during the timespan when the damage was inspected?

QM Hichens, the helmsman, remained at his station within the enclosed wheelhouse for the time being.

QM Olliver was the first "outsider" to arrive on the bridge after the accident and saw Murdoch at the lever to activate the water-tight doors. The Captain arrived next and after discussing what had happened with Murdoch, sent Olliver away to fetch the ship's carpenter. Boxhall arrived on the bridge after Captain Smith and after Olliver had left and was ordered to go forward below to inspect for signs of damage and flooding. His first inspection appeared to show nothing significant but they soon learned from the carpenter and one of the mail clerks that the mail room was flooding rapidly.

Thomas Andrews probably arrived on the bridge within a few minutes after the collision. He was seen by Eleanor Cassebeer, who also left her cabin almost immediately after the impact, reassuring the few passengers who were milling about.

It is a bit difficult to guess at what time Bruce Ismay first arrived on the bridge but it appears to have been about 10 minutes after the collision. IF, the Captain really then told the Chairman that he thought that the damage to the ship could be serious, I wonder how the former knew that. Boxhall had found no damage after his first hurried inspection and Smith had not received any report yet from Andrews. So, my guess is that Ismay arrived after the carpenter and/or the mail clerk came to the bridge to report flooding. It is also possible that he had heard from Wilde, who would have come directly to the bridge after he left Hemming and Foley at the forecastle.

 

[Sarah S]

Thank you.

QM Hichens, the helmsman, remained at his station within the enclosed wheelhouse for the time being.

Do you know if Hichens wrote a memoir about his experience? I would love to know if he remembered and wrote down the conversations that were taking place on the bridge after they struck the iceberg,

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Do you know if Hichens wrote a memoir about his experience?

Not that I know of. I read that he did well in WW1 but got into trouble in later years due to alcoholism, debts and criminal assault. It is all there in his ET bio; rather sad really.

 

[Jason D. Tiller]

Hi Sara,

I am not aware either that Robert Hichens wrote a memoir regarding his experiences. However you may find this article of interest:

Whatever Happened to Robert Hichens

www.encyclopedia-titanica.org

As well, Hichens' great-granddaughter wrote a book titled "The Man Who Sank Titanic", in 2011. You can read more about it on the site via this link: The Man Who Sank Titanic

However, I am told that Sally had an agenda when writing her book. I haven't read it, so cannot offer a critique.

Last but not least Hichens' great-grandson, Simon Medhurst, also wrote a book titled "Titanic Day by Day: 366 days with the Titanic". Simon also recounts his great-grandfather's experience. Here is more information on his book which I posted in this thread:

Titanic: Day by Day: 366 days with the TitanicSimon Medhurst

I received a message from Amazon about this book. Never heard of Simon Medhurst but I am curious to know of anyone has read this book and what it's like.

www.encyclopedia-titanica.org

As well, here is an interview which Simon did recently:

Simon Medhurst on Titanic - Aspects of History

Simon Medhurst is the author of Titanic: 366 Days with the Titanic and he chats to us about his ancestor. the movie and the tragedy.

aspectsofhistory.com

 

[Sarah S]

Hi Sara,

I am not aware either that Robert Hichens wrote a memoir regarding his experiences. However you may find this article of interest:

Whatever Happened to Robert Hichens

www.encyclopedia-titanica.org

As well, Hichens' great-granddaughter wrote a book titled "The Man Who Sank Titanic", in 2011. You can read more about it on the site via this link: The Man Who Sank Titanic

However, I am told that Sally had an agenda when writing her book. I haven't read it, so cannot offer a critique.

Last but not least Hichens' great-grandson, Simon Medhurst, also wrote a book titled "Titanic Day by Day: 366 days with the Titanic". Simon also recounts his great-grandfather's experience. Here is more information on his book which I posted in this thread:

Titanic: Day by Day: 366 days with the TitanicSimon Medhurst

I received a message from Amazon about this book. Never heard of Simon Medhurst but I am curious to know of anyone has read this book and what it's like.

www.encyclopedia-titanica.org

As well, here is an interview which Simon did recently:

Simon Medhurst on Titanic - Aspects of History

Simon Medhurst is the author of Titanic: 366 Days with the Titanic and he chats to us about his ancestor. the movie and the tragedy.

aspectsofhistory.com

Hi Jason, thank you a lot. The first article about Hichens is so well written and made me really sad.
His life was so mysterious.. but nice to see that his grandchildren seem to live well and educate us about his life. I still wished that Hichens himself would have kept more in touch with them and spoken about his struggles and experience on the Titanic.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I still wished that Hichens himself would have kept more in touch with them and spoken about his struggles and experience on the Titanic.

While it is probably true that the difficulties that many crew - Hichens, Fleet etc - involved in the Titanic disaster experienced in their later lives were a form of PTSD related to the tragedy, we have to consider that changing times might also have played a part. Surviving young sailors like Fred Fleet lived long enough to see the sort of life that they were used to change quite radically though the two World Wars, decline of ocean travel to make way for aviation etc. Although they would all have been senior citizens and retired by the 1950s, they would still have been affected by the changes around them and perhaps struggled to adjust.

 

[Stephen Smith]

History, as they say, "is written by the victors" – and the survivors. And the problem is that survivors can sometimes rewrite things, subconsciously or otherwise, in their own image, as it were.

A 'record' of events can often lead to more questions, rather than provide answers. Eyewitness testimony, as is well known, can be spectacularly inaccurate and notoriously unreliable.

If everyone that night penned their memories, we'd still be picking though the inconsistencies, the timings, the who-said-whats, etc. and would probably be no further forward in our understanding of events.

I suspect the major/significant points have been investigated and considered, and conclusions arrived at. One would hope that there is some evidence and/or logic as the basis of those conclusions.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

What has apparently not been challenged is that Murdoch’s reaction was not before Fleet and Lee rang 3 bells but after.

Not sure which way you are going with this Julian. Are you saying that Murdoch saw the iceberg after Fleet rang the 3 bells from the Crow's Nest - the generally accepted version - or that he might have seen it before the bells?

I personally believe that Fleet first saw - or thought he saw - 'something' ahead in the horizon and rang the 3 bells. That altered Murdoch who then started scanning the sea directly ahead and spotted the object in the ship's path. Having done that with the naked eyes, Murdoch might have used his binoculars to identify the object as an iceberg, perhaps a few seconds before Fleet himself realized that it was an iceberg and went to the phone.

Looking at this in another way, Fleet would have rung the bells as soon as he realized that there was an object directly in the ship's path. At that stage, he would not yet have identified it as iceberg but did so after a short but finite time lag. It must have been after that identification that Fleet went to the phone because he is supposed to have told Moody (who answered the phone) "Iceberg Right Ahead!"

 

[Thomas Krom]

The theory that Murdoch saw the iceberg and ordered "Hard a-starboard" before brave sixth officer Moody even picked up the loud speaking phone has one big hole in it, the theory in question isn't even believed anymore by the people who suggested it from what i've seen, which is quartermaster Hichens his statement that Murdoch ordered it after the phone call between lookout Fleet and sixth officer Moody.

 

[Julian Atkins]

Hi Arun,

You have quoted me this evening from another thread!

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Hi Arun,

You have quoted me this evening from another thread!

Yes, I thought that particular point was more appropriate here than in Smith's personal thread. I hope that you don't mind.

The theory that Murdoch saw the iceberg and ordered "Hard a-starboard" before brave sixth officer Moody even picked up the loud speaking phone

No, I did not say that. I said that Murdoch could have seen and identifed the iceberg seconds before Fleet himself realized that what he'd seen was an iceberg. While Fleet then went to the phone, Murdoch spent perhaps 10 to 12 seconds assessing the position of the closing berg with the line of the ship's travel before giving his Hard-a-Starboard order. Within that timeframe Fleet had made his phone call, Moody answered it and loudly repeated Fleet's message, seconds before Murdoch gave that first helm order.

I agree with Sam that Murdoch spent a short but finite time making that assessment. But I differ slightly in the times involved; I felt that Fleet took a bit more than the 3 seconds (that Sam allows in his table of Specific Events on p127 of the excellent Prelude To An Allison) between the moment he rang the bell and identified the iceberg and so went to the phone; more like 6 to 8 seconds IMO by which time Murdoch had already identified the berg himself and started his assessment. This took another 10 to 12 seconds by which time Moody was repeating Fleet's message. To Hichens enclosed in his wheelhouse, this would have sounded like Muroch's order was in response to the phone message, but it was really the bells.

 

[Thomas Krom]

No, I did not say that. I said that Murdoch could have seen and identifed the iceberg seconds before Fleet himself realized that what he'd seen was an iceberg. While Fleet then went to the phone, Murdoch spent perhaps 10 to 12 seconds assessing the position of the closing berg with the line of the ship's travel before giving his Hard-a-Starboard order. Within that timeframe Fleet had made his phone call, Moody answered it and loudly repeated Fleet's message, seconds before Murdoch gave that first helm order.

I agree with Sam that Murdoch spent a short but finite time making that assessment. But I differ slightly in the times involved; I felt that Fleet took a bit more than the 3 seconds (that Sam allows in his table of Specific Events on p127 of the excellent Prelude To An Allison) between the moment he rang the bell and identified the iceberg and so went to the phone; more like 6 to 8 seconds IMO by which time Murdoch had already identified the berg himself and started his assessment. This took another 10 to 12 seconds by which time Moody was repeating Fleet's message. To Hichens enclosed in his wheelhouse, this would have sounded like Muroch's order was in response to the phone message, but it was really the bells.

I didn't meant to say you said it, I wanted to say it to anyone who would pass this tread.