Rockets
- Thread starter Nienke B
- Start date
Michael H. Standart
Member
As far as I know, nothing went wrong with the rockets. They were the prescribed white socket rocets which were used to signal distress, and they worked just fine.
The arguement is over their being seen by the Californian and that ship, for whatever reason, did nothing about them.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
The arguement is over their being seen by the Californian and that ship, for whatever reason, did nothing about them.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Dan Cherry
Member
Nienke,
I fully agree with Michael. For what it is worth, the only time I have ever heard any misgiving about the rockets was in that awful 1996 CBS miniseries. Capt. Smith, played by George C. Scott, looks up at the rocket and says something like, "They're WHITE! They're supposed to be RED, for distress!"
I don't know where the writers got their material for that show. There was a LOT of bad, made-up stuff in that mini-movie. More stuff than good, I recall.
Dan
I fully agree with Michael. For what it is worth, the only time I have ever heard any misgiving about the rockets was in that awful 1996 CBS miniseries. Capt. Smith, played by George C. Scott, looks up at the rocket and says something like, "They're WHITE! They're supposed to be RED, for distress!"
I don't know where the writers got their material for that show. There was a LOT of bad, made-up stuff in that mini-movie. More stuff than good, I recall.
Dan
Michael H. Standart
Member
Hi Dan, the only thing nice about that dreadful CBS miniseries was Catherine Zeta-Jones. Other then that, about all they got right was the break-up when the ship went down.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
i think it probably was that mini serie i saw then... 'cause that was what i was thinking of, red instead of white.
but i can't remember seeing cahterina zeta-jones in it... but ofcourse i'm a girl. if it would have been, i don't know... brad pitt. that would have been better.
Nienke
but i can't remember seeing cahterina zeta-jones in it... but ofcourse i'm a girl. if it would have been, i don't know... brad pitt. that would have been better.
Nienke
Norman Olsen
Member
Mike,If I remember, they also did a good job on the Allison Family, but nothing more. Norm
Haowei Shi
Member
Hey guys!The last rocket is fired about 0145.It fade out atop the fore peek which is just above the water.I will show you the last rocket is fired.
Haowei
FULL SPEED AHEAD!!!
Haowei
FULL SPEED AHEAD!!!
There was nothing wrong with the rockets colour - they were (and supposed to be) white, not red.
There was also a misgiving about the rockets in Titanic (1943).
There was also a misgiving about the rockets in Titanic (1943).
Scott Mills
Member
Michael,
To be fair, at least given crew testimony, they were not being fired at the correct intervals (a minute I think), but yes I agree.
Re: rocket color
Colored rockets were found in the debris field recently validating passenger accounts of colored rockets (blue at the very minimum) also being fired, which refutes officer testimony. Given this I also find it interesting that Californian witnesses saw no colored rockets, but those who claimed to see rockets from Mt. Temple did report multiple colors in addition to white being used.
But that last bit is a digression.
Michael H. Standart
Member
>>To be fair, at least given crew testimony, they were not being fired at the correct intervals <<
It doesn't matter. Board of Trade rules specified rockets of any colour. See TIP | United States Senate Inquiry | Report | Pleas for Help for more information on that. The interval is likewise not entirely relevant as the one minute rule was not hard and fast.
It doesn't matter. Board of Trade rules specified rockets of any colour. See TIP | United States Senate Inquiry | Report | Pleas for Help for more information on that. The interval is likewise not entirely relevant as the one minute rule was not hard and fast.
Dave Gittins
Member
The one minute rule applied only to sound signals. The rule on visual signals was vague. What are "short intervals"?
I'm not convinced that the signals seen on the bottom are multi-coloured. There was no earthly reason to have such signals. The colours on them could be anything from corrosion to marine growth. I can't see any kind of labelling lasting 100 years. I hope somebody fishes them up.
I'm not convinced that the signals seen on the bottom are multi-coloured. There was no earthly reason to have such signals. The colours on them could be anything from corrosion to marine growth. I can't see any kind of labelling lasting 100 years. I hope somebody fishes them up.
Samuel Halpern
Member
In a 2012 National Geographic special with James Cameron, definitive statements were made by Don Lynch and Parks Stephenson that the distress signals sent up from Titanic were colored. Words like "they went up white and burst into colored balls" was stated, and that a box of signals found at the wreck in 2004 show unfired signals that have a viewing port cut out in the nose cones to let you see the color of the balls that would be thrown out. Recently, on a Facebook page, Parks admitted that the box of signals seen in the broadcast was color enhanced by the NatGeo art team for the TV audience.
After doing some considerable research, and gaining access to a set of high quality, un-enhanced photos of the box of signals from the 2004 dive, I cannot support the definitive conclusions stated in the broadcast that the Cotton Powder Co. supplied socket distress signals that threw bright colored balls of various colors, and that they had viewing ports on the signal to allow one to see the color of the balls that were inside. My research and findings - which includes details about these socket distress signals, such as their construction and how they were fired, as well as verbatim statements from eyewitnesses who said they saw colors in the falling stars as well as those that said they were white - are documented in a 16 page paper that can be accessed on my website at: http://www.titanicology.com/Californian/WhatColorWereThey.pdf.
After doing some considerable research, and gaining access to a set of high quality, un-enhanced photos of the box of signals from the 2004 dive, I cannot support the definitive conclusions stated in the broadcast that the Cotton Powder Co. supplied socket distress signals that threw bright colored balls of various colors, and that they had viewing ports on the signal to allow one to see the color of the balls that were inside. My research and findings - which includes details about these socket distress signals, such as their construction and how they were fired, as well as verbatim statements from eyewitnesses who said they saw colors in the falling stars as well as those that said they were white - are documented in a 16 page paper that can be accessed on my website at: http://www.titanicology.com/Californian/WhatColorWereThey.pdf.
Jim Currie
Member
Short intervals are that... short. Not long intervals.
When a ship is in distress, there may be plenty of people on board who can take care of all the vexing things that happen during a distress. Ships which have few crew will invariably find that each crew member has a multi-function role to play.
In the first vessel, an individual or individuals can be dedicated to letting off distress signals and utilising other visual signals to attract attention. In the second, a man might let off a rocket, then go and operate the light signal, then blow the whistle while at the same time direct others or help others nearby.
In every instance, a sound or sight signal is to attract attention then to keep that attention until rescue is achieved.
To keep the attention of observers, you must ensure that they don't get bored. I would say that if I saw a signal of any colour at night, I would be mildly curious. I would watch for a while. Depending on my attention ability, I might keep watching for 5 minutes. But I cannot think what would make me keep watching much longer than that.
However, if I saw a signal with a specific meaning, then I would keep watching. i.e. red is distress. I would keep watching for more red signals.
The regulations of the day specified signals of any colour sent up at short intervals. 5 or 6 minutes is not by any means a short interval. Think about how you'd feel if it took 6 minutes for your computer or phone to respond.
Titanic was a ship with 3 people dedicated to attracting attention; 2 QMs and a navigating officer. She had two signal lights as well as the rockets.
They should have sent up at least 16 rockets in the time available.. 48 minutes. So many rockets in that intervals, no matter what colour, would have banished doubt from the minds of observers.
I know there is no laid-down interval for 'short' but common sense tells us that 6 minutes is not a short interval. Boxhall and Smith fouled-up in that department. There was no excuse for them not yelling HELP big-time with a fireworks display to end all fireworks displays.
Distress signals are signals used to convey distress.
It is significant that neither Boxhall or Stone of the Californian had ever seen a distress rocket fired.
It is equally significant that the rules were changed after the Titanic affair. How many ships had fired distress rockets before then? What would have been done with the distress signal regulations if the particular Titanic circumstances had not happened?
Jim C.
When a ship is in distress, there may be plenty of people on board who can take care of all the vexing things that happen during a distress. Ships which have few crew will invariably find that each crew member has a multi-function role to play.
In the first vessel, an individual or individuals can be dedicated to letting off distress signals and utilising other visual signals to attract attention. In the second, a man might let off a rocket, then go and operate the light signal, then blow the whistle while at the same time direct others or help others nearby.
In every instance, a sound or sight signal is to attract attention then to keep that attention until rescue is achieved.
To keep the attention of observers, you must ensure that they don't get bored. I would say that if I saw a signal of any colour at night, I would be mildly curious. I would watch for a while. Depending on my attention ability, I might keep watching for 5 minutes. But I cannot think what would make me keep watching much longer than that.
However, if I saw a signal with a specific meaning, then I would keep watching. i.e. red is distress. I would keep watching for more red signals.
The regulations of the day specified signals of any colour sent up at short intervals. 5 or 6 minutes is not by any means a short interval. Think about how you'd feel if it took 6 minutes for your computer or phone to respond.
Titanic was a ship with 3 people dedicated to attracting attention; 2 QMs and a navigating officer. She had two signal lights as well as the rockets.
They should have sent up at least 16 rockets in the time available.. 48 minutes. So many rockets in that intervals, no matter what colour, would have banished doubt from the minds of observers.
I know there is no laid-down interval for 'short' but common sense tells us that 6 minutes is not a short interval. Boxhall and Smith fouled-up in that department. There was no excuse for them not yelling HELP big-time with a fireworks display to end all fireworks displays.
Distress signals are signals used to convey distress.
It is significant that neither Boxhall or Stone of the Californian had ever seen a distress rocket fired.
It is equally significant that the rules were changed after the Titanic affair. How many ships had fired distress rockets before then? What would have been done with the distress signal regulations if the particular Titanic circumstances had not happened?
Jim C.
Samuel Halpern
Member
>>Short intervals are that... short.<<
Unfortunately, to this very day "short" is not defined. But whatever those in charge of sending them up viewed as being short, Stone saw a series of these signals going up at intervals (which he thought to be about 3 or 4 minutes) but left it for Capt. Lord to decide what they were. Lord remained below and left it for Stone to decide what was going on, and so no action was taken other than trying to communicate with the vessel by Morse lamp. Stone said he saw 5 go up in about 25 minutes time (which agrees more with Boxhall's estimate that he fired them at 5-6 minute intervals - which Boxhall and Smith obviously viewed as short enough), and Lord said he was told only about one rocket being seen. And that to me is the real problem if what Lord said was true, not the precise intervals that they were fired. Stone had no illusions about these signals being anything other than there was something not right about the vessel. It's really a sad story about poor communications and reluctance by the OOW to take a real initiative in my opinion.
Unfortunately, to this very day "short" is not defined. But whatever those in charge of sending them up viewed as being short, Stone saw a series of these signals going up at intervals (which he thought to be about 3 or 4 minutes) but left it for Capt. Lord to decide what they were. Lord remained below and left it for Stone to decide what was going on, and so no action was taken other than trying to communicate with the vessel by Morse lamp. Stone said he saw 5 go up in about 25 minutes time (which agrees more with Boxhall's estimate that he fired them at 5-6 minute intervals - which Boxhall and Smith obviously viewed as short enough), and Lord said he was told only about one rocket being seen. And that to me is the real problem if what Lord said was true, not the precise intervals that they were fired. Stone had no illusions about these signals being anything other than there was something not right about the vessel. It's really a sad story about poor communications and reluctance by the OOW to take a real initiative in my opinion.
Scott Mills
Member
Sam,
Thanks for the link. Fascinating stuff. I am still, however, inclined to believe that rockets of multiple colors were fired.
You suggest that the perception of color might be an artifact of the initial burst. My problem with this is that it requires these witnesses to be staring directly at the rockets as they detonated, and then immediately ceasing to pay attention to them.
I find this scenario unlikely. Indeed, I also find it unlikely that most of the people who say these rockets was just standing around watching them.
My suspicion would be that the color of the rockets would be noticed by way of incidental observation while performing some other task, or by the color the rockets threw on the deck. As you point out, detonation completely illuminated the deck, and I would expect partial illumination to continue until the balls extinguished, or fell below the boat deck. During that time any illumination would match the color of the stars.
As for the box of lights, I tend to agree with what you've written here in as much as we cannot be sure of the color(s). The only real solution is to retrieve those rockets from the wreck.
Thanks for the link. Fascinating stuff. I am still, however, inclined to believe that rockets of multiple colors were fired.
You suggest that the perception of color might be an artifact of the initial burst. My problem with this is that it requires these witnesses to be staring directly at the rockets as they detonated, and then immediately ceasing to pay attention to them.
I find this scenario unlikely. Indeed, I also find it unlikely that most of the people who say these rockets was just standing around watching them.
My suspicion would be that the color of the rockets would be noticed by way of incidental observation while performing some other task, or by the color the rockets threw on the deck. As you point out, detonation completely illuminated the deck, and I would expect partial illumination to continue until the balls extinguished, or fell below the boat deck. During that time any illumination would match the color of the stars.
As for the box of lights, I tend to agree with what you've written here in as much as we cannot be sure of the color(s). The only real solution is to retrieve those rockets from the wreck.
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