Question The armament of an oceanliner crew

[minhong]

I wonder how far the crew was allowed to be arm. Just a pistol?

*Im korean. I have a bad english ability so english can be unnatural

 

[Thomas Krom]

Good day to you,



I hope you are doing well.


The armament of the ship’s crew is an interesting topic. I don’t know for how long, but it was the custom that White Star Line ships had firearms on-board intended for use in the event of piracy, mutiny or uncontrollable misconduct. The Titanic was supplied with brand-new Webley MKIV revolvers and .455 cartridges and along with the navigation instruments the responsibility of looking after them fell onto the first officer. The first officer from the 27th of March to the 9th of April 1912 was Charles Hebert Lightoller, who after a reshuffle on company’s orders was demoted to second officer. These Webley revolvers were for the senior officers and captain only. Fifth officer Harold Godfrey Lowe brought his own Browning Automatic pistol with him, the exact model of which is still debated (I personally believe it was a FN 1910 model). It has been stated that the two master-at-arms, Thomas Walter King and Henry Joseph Bailey, had their own company firearms too but presently I haven’t found a source stating they were armed during the sinking. Bailey survived the sinking and took command of lifeboat number 16, however he was never questioned about the sinking to the frustration of many.



Chronologically speaking fifth officer Lowe was the first to get hand on his firearm. Lowe slept through an estimated 50 minutes from the sinking and was awoken by the sound of ladies voices in the officers quarters nearby. He went out on deck, saw the lifeboats being prepared to be swung out, went back, got dressed and said he got his pistol. However, there is evidence that disagrees with this. During the loading of lifeboat number 5, between 12:40 and 12:45 Charles Stengel and Washington Dodge Jr witnessed that an officer nearby said:

"I will stop that. I will go down and get my gun." (Stengel’s version)

“He also said he was going below decks to get his gun if the pushing didn’t stop.” (Dodge’s version)

Stengel heard this being said after Dr. Henry William Frauenthal and his brother Isaac Gerry Frauenthal made their way in, while Dodge didn’t specify exactly what happened beyond ‘pushing’. Some historians believe this officer was first officer Murdoch, however as seen in the next mention the timing isn’t right since according to Stengel the officer came back almost immediately after saying this.



The next mention is that shortly after having lowered lifeboat number 6, either at 12:55 or 1:10 depending on which timeline is to be believed, second officer Lightoller was approached by chief officer Henry Tingle Wilde. Lightoller recalled in his 1935 memoirs:

"The Chief Officer came over from the starboard side and asked, did I know where the firearms were?



As I pointed out before, it was the First Officer’s responsibility to receive firearms, navigation instruments, and so forth. I have also said firearms on merchant ships are looked on as ornamental more than useful, and as First Officer I had simply hove the lot into a locker, in my original cabin, a locker that was of little use owing to its inaccessibility.



Then, later on, had come the “general post,” whereby Murdoch who was now First Officer, knew nothing about the firearms, and couldn’t find them when they were wanted—I say wanted, rather than needed, because I still don’t believe they were actually needed.



I told the Chief Officer, “Yes, I know where they are. Come along and I’ll get them for you,” and into the First Officer’s cabin we went—the Chief, Murdoch, the Captain and myself—where I hauled them out, still in all their pristine newness and grease.



I was going out when the Chief shoved one of the revolvers into my hands, with a handful of ammunition, and said, “Here you are, you may need it.” On the impulse, I just slipped it into my pocket, along with the cartridges, and returned to the boats. The whole incident had not taken more than three minutes, though it seemed barely worth that precious time."

This means that we have five confirmed people of the Titanic’s deck crew that we know of that were certainly armed, this being:

• Captain Edward John Smith: A company Webley MKIV revolver
• Chief officer Henry Tingle Wilde: A company Webley MKIV revolver
• First officer William McMaster Murdoch: A company Webley MKIV revolver
• Second officer Charles Hebert Lightoller: A company Webley MKIV revolver
• Fifth officer Harold Godfrey Lowe: His personal Browning Automatic pistol

While it is a whole different story, beyond any doubt some of these firearms were either used to intimidate people or even fired.



I hope this offers some insight and that you are doing well.

Kind regards,

Thomas

 

[minhong]

Good day to you,



I hope you are doing well.


The armament of the ship’s crew is an interesting topic. I don’t know for how long, but it was the custom that White Star Line ships had firearms on-board intended for use in the event of piracy, mutiny or uncontrollable misconduct. The Titanic was supplied with brand-new Webley MKIV revolvers and .455 cartridges and along with the navigation instruments the responsibility of looking after them fell onto the first officer. The first officer from the 27th of March to the 9th of April 1912 was Charles Hebert Lightoller, who after a reshuffle on company’s orders was demoted to second officer. These Webley revolvers were for the senior officers and captain only. Fifth officer Harold Godfrey Lowe brought his own Browning Automatic pistol with him, the exact model of which is still debated (I personally believe it was a FN 1910 model). It has been stated that the two master-at-arms, Thomas Walter King and Henry Joseph Bailey, had their own company firearms too but presently I haven’t found a source stating they were armed during the sinking. Bailey survived the sinking and took command of lifeboat number 16, however he was never questioned about the sinking to the frustration of many.



Chronologically speaking fifth officer Lowe was the first to get hand on his firearm. Lowe slept through an estimated 50 minutes from the sinking and was awoken by the sound of ladies voices in the officers quarters nearby. He went out on deck, saw the lifeboats being prepared to be swung out, went back, got dressed and said he got his pistol. However, there is evidence that disagrees with this. During the loading of lifeboat number 5, between 12:40 and 12:45 Charles Stengel and Washington Dodge Jr witnessed that an officer nearby said:



Stengel heard this being said after Dr. Henry William Frauenthal and his brother Isaac Gerry Frauenthal made their way in, while Dodge didn’t specify exactly what happened beyond ‘pushing’. Some historians believe this officer was first officer Murdoch, however as seen in the next mention the timing isn’t right since according to Stengel the officer came back almost immediately after saying this.



The next mention is that shortly after having lowered lifeboat number 6, either at 12:55 or 1:10 depending on which timeline is to be believed, second officer Lightoller was approached by chief officer Henry Tingle Wilde. Lightoller recalled in his 1935 memoirs:

This means that we have five confirmed people of the Titanic’s deck crew that we know of that were certainly armed, this being:

• Captain Edward John Smith: A company Webley MKIV revolver
• Chief officer Henry Tingle Wilde: A company Webley MKIV revolver
• First officer William McMaster Murdoch: A company Webley MKIV revolver
• Second officer Charles Hebert Lightoller: A company Webley MKIV revolver
• Fifth officer Harold Godfrey Lowe: His personal Browning Automatic pistol

While it is a whole different story, beyond any doubt some of these firearms were either used to intimidate people or even fired.



I hope this offers some insight and that you are doing well.

Kind regards,

Thomas

Good day to you,



I hope you are doing well.


The armament of the ship’s crew is an interesting topic. I don’t know for how long, but it was the custom that White Star Line ships had firearms on-board intended for use in the event of piracy, mutiny or uncontrollable misconduct. The Titanic was supplied with brand-new Webley MKIV revolvers and .455 cartridges and along with the navigation instruments the responsibility of looking after them fell onto the first officer. The first officer from the 27th of March to the 9th of April 1912 was Charles Hebert Lightoller, who after a reshuffle on company’s orders was demoted to second officer. These Webley revolvers were for the senior officers and captain only. Fifth officer Harold Godfrey Lowe brought his own Browning Automatic pistol with him, the exact model of which is still debated (I personally believe it was a FN 1910 model). It has been stated that the two master-at-arms, Thomas Walter King and Henry Joseph Bailey, had their own company firearms too but presently I haven’t found a source stating they were armed during the sinking. Bailey survived the sinking and took command of lifeboat number 16, however he was never questioned about the sinking to the frustration of many.



Chronologically speaking fifth officer Lowe was the first to get hand on his firearm. Lowe slept through an estimated 50 minutes from the sinking and was awoken by the sound of ladies voices in the officers quarters nearby. He went out on deck, saw the lifeboats being prepared to be swung out, went back, got dressed and said he got his pistol. However, there is evidence that disagrees with this. During the loading of lifeboat number 5, between 12:40 and 12:45 Charles Stengel and Washington Dodge Jr witnessed that an officer nearby said:



Stengel heard this being said after Dr. Henry William Frauenthal and his brother Isaac Gerry Frauenthal made their way in, while Dodge didn’t specify exactly what happened beyond ‘pushing’. Some historians believe this officer was first officer Murdoch, however as seen in the next mention the timing isn’t right since according to Stengel the officer came back almost immediately after saying this.



The next mention is that shortly after having lowered lifeboat number 6, either at 12:55 or 1:10 depending on which timeline is to be believed, second officer Lightoller was approached by chief officer Henry Tingle Wilde. Lightoller recalled in his 1935 memoirs:

This means that we have five confirmed people of the Titanic’s deck crew that we know of that were certainly armed, this being:

• Captain Edward John Smith: A company Webley MKIV revolver
• Chief officer Henry Tingle Wilde: A company Webley MKIV revolver
• First officer William McMaster Murdoch: A company Webley MKIV revolver
• Second officer Charles Hebert Lightoller: A company Webley MKIV revolver
• Fifth officer Harold Godfrey Lowe: His personal Browning Automatic pistol

While it is a whole different story, beyond any doubt some of these firearms were either used to intimidate people or even fired.



I hope this offers some insight and that you are doing well.

Kind regards,

Thomas

I never imagined I'd get such a detailed answer. Thank you very much.
It's night in Korea, so it must be daytime there. Have a good day

 

[Thomas Krom]

I never imagined I'd get such a detailed answer. Thank you very much.
It's night in Korea, so it must be daytime there. Have a good day

Glad to be at service, I hope it helped. Presently while writing this it's 19:08 here.