The propellers being exposed

LukeW17

Member
Hi all

When were the propellers exactly exposed from the water as the stern was pulled up? Was it late or early on in the sinking?

Many CGI videos and Cameron’s movie itself show them rising minutes before the final plunge and break up? But would they become atleast partly visible earlier due to the port list?

Luke
 
Definitely.

While Lifeboat 2 rowed around Titanic's stern from the Port to Starboard Side (to go to gangway doors to pick up more passengers as ordered by Smith) the occupants noticed the propellers hanging above them.
 
Here are survivor accounts who mentioned the propellers being exposed - from the Inquiry:



George Symons

"You could see her starboard sidelight, which was still burning, was not so very far from the water, and her stern was well up in the air."

Q - When you say all her lights went out, do you mean right away astern too?
A - No, just her foremost lights had disappeared, and her starboard sidelight left burning was the only light, barring the masthead light, on that side of the bridge that I could see.
Q - Then you saw her with her stern out?
A - Yes.
Q - Will you give us an idea what angle was her stern as far as you could see? How did it look to you; was it all up?
A - More like that with a cant. (showing.) I do not know what position you would call it altogether.
Q - Was it out of water?
A - Yes.
Q - Could you see the propellers?
A - You could just see the propellers.
Q - You could see the propellers?
A - Yes.
Q - Then when you saw her like that, what was the next thing that happened?
A - ....I stood and watched it till I heard two sharp explosions in the ship. What they were I could not say. Then she suddenly took a top cant, her stern came well out of the water then.
Q - A top cant?
A - You know what I mean to say, she took a heavy cant and her bow went down clear.

I believe he was describing something like this:



breakingship.PNG


The stern was rising high in the air and her propellers were exposed and yet at the same time her side light which was below the bridge was still visible. I believe the ship had to be in a buckled position to achieve both simultaneously. Joseph Scarrott saw the same thing, except he was on the other side and saw her port light near the water when her stern was high in the air.


Joseph Scarrott
"As the water got above the bridge she started to go down faster......She was right up on end then.....All this part (pointing on the model) was in the water; you could just see the port bow light."

The Attorney-General - He said she was standing end-on.
Q - What do you mean by that?
A - This part of the ship was right up in the air. You could see her propeller right clear, and you could see underneath the keel; you could see part of her keel.
Q - And at the stern she was so much up that you could see the propeller?
A - Yes.
Q - You saw the port light disappear?
A - Yes.
Q - And then after that the ship went?
A - Yes, she seemed to go with a rush then.


John Poingdestre
Q - Before the ship sank just tell me this, what was the position of the vessel? I have a pen in my hand?
A - Well, the water was up to the officers’ house.
Q - Now could you see under the keel of the ship abaft the officers’ house?
A - Yes, the propeller and everything was quite clear.
Q - Underneath?
A - Yes.
Q - Then the water comes up to the officers’ house. Was it then that the forward part disappeared?
A - Yes.
Q - And then what happened to the afterpart?
A - It uprighted itself, as if nothing had happened.
Q - You mean it came back like that, so to speak?
A - Yes, straight on the water again.


Frederick Scott
"We pulled away from the ship’s side and we had not been away long before the ship started breaking up, and her stern went up in the air, and you could see her three propellers."
Q - You got away?
A - Yes; we had just got at the stern of her when she started breaking up.
Q - You say she started breaking up?
A - Yes; she broke off at the after-funnel, and when she broke off her stern end came up in the air and came down on a level keel and disappeared.
Q - It went up in the air and came back on a level keel?
A - Yes.


Edith Rosenbaum - Letter from 1934.
"I remember we kept our eyes focused on the bow light of the Titanic which shone bright green on the starboard side. This light seemed to dip nearer and nearer to the water's edge......Gradually the green starboard light hit the water's edge, and it seemed to me that the boat stood on end......At 2:20 I saw the green light disappear entirely. The boat fully lighted up, suggesting one of our skyscrapers. It stood on end and then seemed to shoot or dive; went down by her nose with such speed, that I seemed to think it would come up again in some other part of the ocean. There was a very heavy explosion under water, a second and then a third. We were surprised that instead of sucking us in, the effect was to the contrary, it pushed us out and onward."


I believe the ship was buckling and the stern rose up before the bow had submerged. Mr. Brown saw the stern rise up when he was in front of the first funnel. The stern trembled and buckled and canted sharply upwards and then it settled back. Several survivors said the stern lights were still lit when she rose almost vertical, and others said the lights were still on after it settled back. I believe the survivors above were basing their accounts from the view they had. If they saw her broadside they would see she had broken in two and watched her stern act independently and rising high into the air at a sharp angle before the bridge side lights had disappeared, but if they were in one of the boats that was rowing towards the other ship that was seen off the port bow then they would have looked back at the Titanic immediately after the explosive roar and would see the ship appearing to stand up like a skyscraper with her bridge side lights still exposed above the water and giving the impression that the whole ship was standing up like a column.


shipangle1a.PNG


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Definitely.

While Lifeboat 2 rowed around Titanic's stern from the Port to Starboard Side (to go to gangway doors to pick up more passengers as ordered by Smith) the occupants noticed the propellers hanging above them.

Thanks, so quiet a bit earlier than I first thought then

Luke
 
I believe the propellors were exposed, completely, minutes before the sinking, but portions of them would have popped up from the surface well before that, but nothing more.
Yeah that is what I believe.

In Cameron’s movie they are shown being pulled quickly from the water during the final plunge, without any sign of them being visible before.

I know this is just a film but I always thought it wouldn’t be like that

Luke
 
Here are survivor accounts who mentioned the propellers being exposed - from the Inquiry:



George Symons

"You could see her starboard sidelight, which was still burning, was not so very far from the water, and her stern was well up in the air."

Q - When you say all her lights went out, do you mean right away astern too?
A - No, just her foremost lights had disappeared, and her starboard sidelight left burning was the only light, barring the masthead light, on that side of the bridge that I could see.
Q - Then you saw her with her stern out?
A - Yes.
Q - Will you give us an idea what angle was her stern as far as you could see? How did it look to you; was it all up?
A - More like that with a cant. (showing.) I do not know what position you would call it altogether.
Q - Was it out of water?
A - Yes.
Q - Could you see the propellers?
A - You could just see the propellers.
Q - You could see the propellers?
A - Yes.
Q - Then when you saw her like that, what was the next thing that happened?
A - ....I stood and watched it till I heard two sharp explosions in the ship. What they were I could not say. Then she suddenly took a top cant, her stern came well out of the water then.
Q - A top cant?
A - You know what I mean to say, she took a heavy cant and her bow went down clear.

I believe he was describing something like this:



View attachment 38706

The stern was rising high in the air and her propellers were exposed and yet at the same time her side light which was below the bridge was still visible. I believe the ship had to be in a buckled position to achieve both simultaneously. Joseph Scarrott saw the same thing, except he was on the other side and saw her port light near the water when her stern was high in the air.


Joseph Scarrott
"As the water got above the bridge she started to go down faster......She was right up on end then.....All this part (pointing on the model) was in the water; you could just see the port bow light."

The Attorney-General - He said she was standing end-on.
Q - What do you mean by that?
A - This part of the ship was right up in the air. You could see her propeller right clear, and you could see underneath the keel; you could see part of her keel.
Q - And at the stern she was so much up that you could see the propeller?
A - Yes.
Q - You saw the port light disappear?
A - Yes.
Q - And then after that the ship went?
A - Yes, she seemed to go with a rush then.


John Poingdestre
Q - Before the ship sank just tell me this, what was the position of the vessel? I have a pen in my hand?
A - Well, the water was up to the officers’ house.
Q - Now could you see under the keel of the ship abaft the officers’ house?
A - Yes, the propeller and everything was quite clear.
Q - Underneath?
A - Yes.
Q - Then the water comes up to the officers’ house. Was it then that the forward part disappeared?
A - Yes.
Q - And then what happened to the afterpart?
A - It uprighted itself, as if nothing had happened.
Q - You mean it came back like that, so to speak?
A - Yes, straight on the water again.


Frederick Scott
"We pulled away from the ship’s side and we had not been away long before the ship started breaking up, and her stern went up in the air, and you could see her three propellers."
Q - You got away?
A - Yes; we had just got at the stern of her when she started breaking up.
Q - You say she started breaking up?
A - Yes; she broke off at the after-funnel, and when she broke off her stern end came up in the air and came down on a level keel and disappeared.
Q - It went up in the air and came back on a level keel?
A - Yes.


Edith Rosenbaum - Letter from 1934.
"I remember we kept our eyes focused on the bow light of the Titanic which shone bright green on the starboard side. This light seemed to dip nearer and nearer to the water's edge......Gradually the green starboard light hit the water's edge, and it seemed to me that the boat stood on end......At 2:20 I saw the green light disappear entirely. The boat fully lighted up, suggesting one of our skyscrapers. It stood on end and then seemed to shoot or dive; went down by her nose with such speed, that I seemed to think it would come up again in some other part of the ocean. There was a very heavy explosion under water, a second and then a third. We were surprised that instead of sucking us in, the effect was to the contrary, it pushed us out and onward."


I believe the ship was buckling and the stern rose up before the bow had submerged. Mr. Brown saw the stern rise up when he was in front of the first funnel. The stern trembled and buckled and canted sharply upwards and then it settled back. Several survivors said the stern lights were still lit when she rose almost vertical, and others said the lights were still on after it settled back. I believe the survivors above were basing their accounts from the view they had. If they saw her broadside they would see she had broken in two and watched her stern act independently and rising high into the air at a sharp angle before the bridge side lights had disappeared, but if they were in one of the boats that was rowing towards the other ship that was seen off the port bow then they would have looked back at the Titanic immediately after the explosive roar and would see the ship appearing to stand up like a skyscraper with her bridge side lights still exposed above the water and giving the impression that the whole ship was standing up like a column.


View attachment 38707

.
Thanks for the detailed reply

Luke
 
Thanks for the detailed reply

Luke
Yeah that is what I believe.

In Cameron’s movie they are shown being pulled quickly from the water during the final plunge, without any sign of them being visible before.

I know this is just a film but I always thought it wouldn’t be like that

Luke
The film is not really incorrect in showing the propellers until the final moments. While it favored sinking from the bow there was bodily submersion which prevented the propellers to be totally exposed throughout the sinking. The reason they were emerging so quickly is simply because of the rapid flooding which quickly overwhelmed the stern causing the severe trim with the aft of the ship to rise from the water.
 
Jack Thayer was directly facing the ship, from him and a few others we knew the forward funnel fall before the break happened.
"I came up facing the ship, and one of the funnels seemed to be lifted off and fell towards me about 15 yards away, with a mass of sparks and steam coming out of it. I saw the ship in a sort of red glare, and it seemed to me that she broke in two just in front of the third funnel."
(Jack Thayer, 1912)
 
Question is, how do we know what stage the break up was in when Thayer looked back at the ship while swimming for his life? I believe if the ship was sinking bodily the hull largely around the area where she broke would have been below the surface which would make it impossible for anyone to see the actual break up commencing, assuming it commenced below the surface. The canting up was the second stage and the settling back was the third stage of the break up. It is also unclear which funnel he witnessed falling as I believe (looking at the Britannic sinking) that most of her funnels fell in quick succession.

Several survivors in the lifeboats said they turned and looked at the ship when they heard the explosive sounds. Emily Ryerson said - "Then suddenly, when we still seemed very near, we saw the ship was sinking rapidly. I was in the bow of the boat with my daughter and turned (perhaps they also heard the explosion which made them turn and look at the ship) to see the great ship take a plunge toward the bow, the two forward funnels seemed to lean and then she seemed to break in half as if cut with a knife...." Mr. Brown said he was just forward of the first funnel when he saw the stern break off and cant upwards. Several survivors tried to free the starboard collapsible and felt the explosive rumble inside the ship and felt the bow go down and then up again. I believe all of this points to the funnels remaining intact during the initial stages of the break up and fell immediately afterwards.

When Lightoller was sucked down twice he described the explosions occurring and when he reached the surface he saw the stern was facing the opposite way. I believe this is a very clear indication that the ship had already broken and was rising up and turning around. The propellers were hovering over the collapsible boat. He swam for the boat and he said the funnel fell and washed the boat far away from the sinking ship. I have to wonder if the wave that washed his boat away was really from the forward funnel. It may have been caused by the collapse of the other funnels or possibly when the stern broke completely and settled back. A number of lifeboats were unsettled and rocked when the explosions occurred. Edith Rosenbaum said - "There was a very heavy explosion under water, a second and then a third. We were surprised that instead of sucking us in, the effect was to the contrary, it pushed us out and onward." If the wake of the explosions were powerful enough to push her lifeboat away at a distance, then it may have been much stronger closer to the ship and may have been the cause for the collapsible to have been pushed away from the liner as she sank..


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Not sure what you mean. As I mentioned above the forward funnel fall before the break.
Hi, Ioannis Georgiou
I just thought there was something I said that was incorrect in my reply to the OP, and that I read the the the link you posted to see the error I made. Sorry if I misunderstood.

In reference to the forward funnel collapsing, yes I am aware that it fell before the breakup. I always found it odd that most depictions, besides Cameron, show the propellors and stern out of the water long before the bridge is even submerged.
Sorry for the confusion.
 
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