Bill Wormstedt
Member
What you're asking for, Carl, is a huge amount of data - quite a lot of which is hard to nail down, time wise. And disputable. But I know someone who is working on it!
But if you want a timeline for the lifeboat lowerings, take a look at:
http://home.comcast.net/~bwormst/titanic/revised.html
But if you want a timeline for the lifeboat lowerings, take a look at:
http://home.comcast.net/~bwormst/titanic/revised.html
Hitch
Member
Thanks for the link Bill.
Yea I know that this is maybe allot to ask. But I think we can figure it out. And make a whole time line of it. ofcourse we can never really know all the things that happened that night, but maybe if we all work together, and with the information on other sites, we could.
Yea I know that this is maybe allot to ask. But I think we can figure it out. And make a whole time line of it. ofcourse we can never really know all the things that happened that night, but maybe if we all work together, and with the information on other sites, we could.
David G. Brown
RIP
Carl -- Thanks for setting me up. Nobody will believe that I did not force you to ask about an event-by-event chronology.
For about 8 years I have been trying to create such a document. It was the basis for my book, "Last Log," but that version was limited to only portions of the whole night. After the book came out, Captain Erik prodded me into doing more work on it. For the past three years I've been promising him a copy of the completed document. However, I can't seem to get the thing done.
Right now, my chronology lists more than 600 separate events. A color coding separates crew events from passenger events or hotel staff events. As much as possible, the entries contain the name of the survivor who supplied testimony.
In addition, each event is given in six different time references. They are:
1. Running time with 0:00 as the instant of impact.
2. April 14th hours.
3. April 15th hours.
4. Wheelhouse clock time (for ship's bells).
5. New York hours.
6. Greenwich Mean Time (GMT)
This document removes many of the time-related mysteries. It also shows some interesting relationships between events. I have found it an extremely valuable tool in researching the sinking.
However, it is no more perfect than any other human endeavor. My plan is to remove as many of the obvious imperfections as possible. Then, I will present it at Charile's Titanic Symposium in Maine this coming April. After I get feedback from that august assembly, I will update and change the document.
Eventually, sometime in early summer, my goal is to present it to the members of this board. I intend to retain copyright but allow only members of the ET forum the right to use it in their documents. There will be a fee for use, however. Anyone who uses it will be required to post any changes or corrections they have found.
-- David G. Brown
For about 8 years I have been trying to create such a document. It was the basis for my book, "Last Log," but that version was limited to only portions of the whole night. After the book came out, Captain Erik prodded me into doing more work on it. For the past three years I've been promising him a copy of the completed document. However, I can't seem to get the thing done.
Right now, my chronology lists more than 600 separate events. A color coding separates crew events from passenger events or hotel staff events. As much as possible, the entries contain the name of the survivor who supplied testimony.
In addition, each event is given in six different time references. They are:
1. Running time with 0:00 as the instant of impact.
2. April 14th hours.
3. April 15th hours.
4. Wheelhouse clock time (for ship's bells).
5. New York hours.
6. Greenwich Mean Time (GMT)
This document removes many of the time-related mysteries. It also shows some interesting relationships between events. I have found it an extremely valuable tool in researching the sinking.
However, it is no more perfect than any other human endeavor. My plan is to remove as many of the obvious imperfections as possible. Then, I will present it at Charile's Titanic Symposium in Maine this coming April. After I get feedback from that august assembly, I will update and change the document.
Eventually, sometime in early summer, my goal is to present it to the members of this board. I intend to retain copyright but allow only members of the ET forum the right to use it in their documents. There will be a fee for use, however. Anyone who uses it will be required to post any changes or corrections they have found.
-- David G. Brown
Michael H. Standart
Member
>>Can anyone give me a list with the time of all the things that happened to/on the Titanic after he hits the iceberg? <<
Presently, the most complete Titanic timeline that exists is the Eaton and Haas book, "Titanic: A Journey Through Time" which can be bought from Amazon.com HERE.
David hopes to update and correct the record as far as possible, but as he pointed out, the work is only as good as human fraility will allow and no matter how thorough the research, some events and exactly when they happened will forever remain a mystery.
Presently, the most complete Titanic timeline that exists is the Eaton and Haas book, "Titanic: A Journey Through Time" which can be bought from Amazon.com HERE.
David hopes to update and correct the record as far as possible, but as he pointed out, the work is only as good as human fraility will allow and no matter how thorough the research, some events and exactly when they happened will forever remain a mystery.
Samuel Halpern
Member
Hmm! From the above reference: "11:30pm. Lookout spots iceberg dead ahead ..."
This is highly unlikely. If the fatal berg was spotted 10 minutes before impact, then it would have had to appear as a black mass only 0.2 degrees in angular height, or less than 1/2 the angular diameter of a full moon at a distance of 3.7 nautical mile away. And the only way it could have been spotted that far out is if it blocked out stars on the horizon that clear, moonless night.
See encyclopedia-titanica.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=5664&post=111315#POST111315 for a discussion of the relative size of a 70 ft iceberg as viewed from the crows nest as it approached.
This is highly unlikely. If the fatal berg was spotted 10 minutes before impact, then it would have had to appear as a black mass only 0.2 degrees in angular height, or less than 1/2 the angular diameter of a full moon at a distance of 3.7 nautical mile away. And the only way it could have been spotted that far out is if it blocked out stars on the horizon that clear, moonless night.
See encyclopedia-titanica.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=5664&post=111315#POST111315 for a discussion of the relative size of a 70 ft iceberg as viewed from the crows nest as it approached.
David G. Brown
RIP
I can promise everyone that the document that I am preparing will arouse the ire of all segments of the Titanic world without favoritism. In other words, everyone will have reason to take a shot at me.
My methodology has been based on:
1. Sworn testimony taken in 1912 is the "gold standard" as primary source information. Contemporary news accounts are secondary sources to be used only as corroboration for primary information. Books and interviews done in later years are considered as tertiary sources to be used only with extreme caution and never without support from contemporaneous testimony.
2. The assumption is that no one lied under oath, but testimony the witness believed to be truthful may be contrary to fact due to vagaries of human memory.
3. Events and actions must follow the laws of physics regarding ships; and must agree with the standard operating practices of seaman on large British merchant vessels of the era.
4. It is not possible to be 100% correct in a timeline due to the inadequacy of the original data. The goal of the exercise is not perfection, but rather the closest approximation possible of what took place.
-- David G. Brown
My methodology has been based on:
1. Sworn testimony taken in 1912 is the "gold standard" as primary source information. Contemporary news accounts are secondary sources to be used only as corroboration for primary information. Books and interviews done in later years are considered as tertiary sources to be used only with extreme caution and never without support from contemporaneous testimony.
2. The assumption is that no one lied under oath, but testimony the witness believed to be truthful may be contrary to fact due to vagaries of human memory.
3. Events and actions must follow the laws of physics regarding ships; and must agree with the standard operating practices of seaman on large British merchant vessels of the era.
4. It is not possible to be 100% correct in a timeline due to the inadequacy of the original data. The goal of the exercise is not perfection, but rather the closest approximation possible of what took place.
-- David G. Brown
Time of Titanic
impact with ice:
Ship's time.............. 11:40 p.m. April 14th
(44° 50'W)
Local Apparent time.......11:19 p.m. April 14th
(50° 14'W
GMT........................02:40 a.m. April 15th
NYT........................ 9:40 p.m. April 14th
Time of Titanic
sinking
Ship's time................2:20 a.m. April 15th
Local Apparent time........1:59 a.m. April 15th
GMT........................5:20 a.m. April 15th
NYT........................0:20 a.m. April 15th
impact with ice:
Ship's time.............. 11:40 p.m. April 14th
(44° 50'W)
Local Apparent time.......11:19 p.m. April 14th
(50° 14'W
GMT........................02:40 a.m. April 15th
NYT........................ 9:40 p.m. April 14th
Time of Titanic
sinking
Ship's time................2:20 a.m. April 15th
Local Apparent time........1:59 a.m. April 15th
GMT........................5:20 a.m. April 15th
NYT........................0:20 a.m. April 15th
Samuel Halpern
Member
In developing any timeline it is important to keep to using one point of reference; i.e., ship's time, NY time, or coordinated universal time (UTC), etc. Looks like the difference between NY time and ship's time was probably 1 hr 33 min. See discussion by Markus Philipp on what time it was on the Titanic that evening.
the difference between NY time and ship's time was probably 1 hr 33 min.
The difference between NY time and ship's time was 2 hours.
The difference between NY time and ship's time was 2 hours.
Samuel Halpern
Member
Interesting definitive sounding statement. Can you explain how you derived that?
Can you explain how you derived that?
Based on the evidence adduced at the British enquiry, Titanic's Noon April 14th longitude was
44° 50'W, from which the ships's time was corrected for NOON. Converting longitude into time we get 2hrs 59min 20sec (3hours) difference from Grenwich. The difference between Greenwich and New York time is 5 hours. Subtract 3 hours from 5 hours gives NY time difference of 2 hours from ship's time. This is confirmed by W/O Bride's British enquiry evidence.
Collins
Based on the evidence adduced at the British enquiry, Titanic's Noon April 14th longitude was
44° 50'W, from which the ships's time was corrected for NOON. Converting longitude into time we get 2hrs 59min 20sec (3hours) difference from Grenwich. The difference between Greenwich and New York time is 5 hours. Subtract 3 hours from 5 hours gives NY time difference of 2 hours from ship's time. This is confirmed by W/O Bride's British enquiry evidence.
Collins
Samuel Halpern
Member
Sorry, but the numbers don't add up. If the time on the Titanic was 2 hours ahead of NY time, then the last CQD transmission, which was received by the Virginian at 12:27 AM NY time, must have been sent at 02:27. And the wireless operators left the room about 10 min before the ship sank (see Bride's testimony at the American Inquiry). This would put the sinking at about 02:37 which is 17 minutes after the reported sinking time.
See Titanic's Time Enigmas for an excellent explanation on how the Titanic's time was set.
Time of sinking: 02:20 Titanic time = 0:47 NY time (EST) = 05:47 GMT.
See Titanic's Time Enigmas for an excellent explanation on how the Titanic's time was set.
Time of sinking: 02:20 Titanic time = 0:47 NY time (EST) = 05:47 GMT.
Time of sinking: 02:20 Titanic time = 0:47 NY time (EST) = 05:47 GMT
Sorry, but those numbers don't add up! You have, here, a time difference of 3h 27m with GMT (1h 33m with NYT). Converting time (3hr 27m)to arc relates to the longitude of 51° 45'W, which is 81 miles west of the wreck site today.
Collins
Sorry, but those numbers don't add up! You have, here, a time difference of 3h 27m with GMT (1h 33m with NYT). Converting time (3hr 27m)to arc relates to the longitude of 51° 45'W, which is 81 miles west of the wreck site today.
Collins
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