Third Class Women in Bow

[Charles Francis Dowling]

Hello to everyone,

After looking at many records, including the Joseph/Peter (Katrin Yusuf) family from Lebanon and The Fatal Journey of Third Class Men on the Titanic which shows info that at least 9 Third Class women were in the forward section, I was wondering if there are accounts of Third class women in the bow at the time of the collision, or if there were female passengers situated in this section at all.

Thanks,
Charles

 

[TimTurner]

In general principle, I recall that the forward section of 3rd class berthing was designated for men only, women and families were quartered aft. I'm a bit skeptical of seeing any women with forward berths.

In general, most passengers were in bed when the collision occurred. If there were women with cabins there, that's probably where they were.

 

[Harland Duzen]

Apparently Single Women and Families were berthed in the Stern while Single Men and Couples were berthed in the Bow.

Could this explain it?

 

[Charles Francis Dowling]

Thanks both of you. I didn't know it was also separated by if you were a family or single couple.

 

[Bob Godfrey]

Martin, you stated above that couples - by which I assume you mean married couples - were berthed in the bow rather than the stern. Could you please tell us your source for that, if it was something other than David Gleicher's article?

 

[Robert T. Paige]

Any relation in survival rates according to whether you were berthed in bow or stern ?

 

[Harland Duzen]

Any relation in survival rates according to whether you were berthed in bow or stern ?

Well we know that many gates in the bow were shut while 3rd class had more space and escape routes such as the 3rd class stairwell underneath the poop deck and including the 2nd class stairwell at some point.

 

[Harland Duzen]

Well we know that many gates in the bow were shut while 3rd class had more space and escape routes such as the 3rd class stairwell underneath the poop deck and including the 2nd class stairwell at some point.

For further info, check the Titanic Documentary: Titanic: Secrets Revealed, 01:02:50 onwards.

 

[Charles Francis Dowling]

After looking at the ET bios of third class couples without other family members, I finally came across the bios of the Hakkarainens, an American couple of Finnish descent, returning from a trip. On the night of the sinking, Mrs. Hakkarainen recalled hearing a huge noise and vibration, more of an account than Third Class women on the Titanic who usually described the "little or no feeling" accounts of the collision.

Pekka, her husband, went out to investigate what went on while she stayed in bed. After Pekka hadn't returned, Elin was awaken again by fellow passengers who had rushed her out of her cabin with only a handbag and a lifebelt. After heading through the corridors in search of an exit, a steward finally arrived to help them to the deck.

Elin was still trying to find her husband on the boat deck when she was grabbed by someone and pulled her in Lifeboat 15.


This has to be evidence that couples were in the bow, because it was the passengers in the bow that were rushed by people or by water. Elin didn't account any water that she saw, but by the way everyone was moving, it was possible that others had noticed flooding somewhere near her cabin.

 

[Harland Duzen]

Martin, you stated above that couples - by which I assume you mean married couples - were berthed in the bow rather than the stern. Could you please tell us your source for that, if it was something other than David Gleicher's article?

I afaird I can't remember where.

 

[Charles Francis Dowling]

Elizabeth Vilhelmina Johnson's daughter Eleanor (almost 2 at the time) claimed her family was in the forward section and her brother was knocked out of bed.



Either she has her facts wrong or there were some Third Class women in the bow. She even recalled that the passengers were placing with the ice on the deck, but didn't mention any flooding (perhaps they were on E Deck

 

[Charles Francis Dowling]

What I meant was, if Shuman's account is true (her mother's actually, since she was an infant at the time) then they would have been berthed in the forward cabins (no ice landed on the rear decks since the iceberg stopped scraping the ship forward amidships). They said according to testimony that the ice landed right outside their cabin door. Possible locations for her cabin may be Cabins 1-3 in Section B (E-Deck) or cabins alongside the starboard side of F-Deck (I would assume Section G since Olaus Abelseth, another passenger in the section, claimed the section to be quite dry for a while.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

In general principle, I recall that the forward section of 3rd class berthing was designated for men only, women and families were quartered aft.

That was probably true on principle, but I dont' think it was enforced or followed strictly. Third Class survivor Daniel Buckley, himself berthed in the bow section, who said later that as he came out into the corridor early after the collision, there were several young men and women thonging outside, some of them partially wet.

ekka, her husband, went out to investigate what went on while she stayed in bed. After Pekka hadn't returned, Elin was awaken again by fellow passengers who had rushed her out of her cabin with only a handbag and a lifebelt. After heading through the corridors in search of an exit, a steward finally arrived to help them to the deck.

Elin was still trying to find her husband on the boat deck when she was grabbed by someone and pulled her in Lifeboat 15.


This has to be evidence that couples were in the bow, because it was the passengers in the bow that were rushed by people or by water.

I don't know about couples, but there is indirect evidence that Third Class families were accommodated in the bow. As far as I could make out, there were no cabins larger than for 6 in the stern section but there were 8 sleepers in the bow section. Larger families like the Sages and the Panulas are more likely to have been accommodated there.

 

[Thomas Krom]

Larger families like the Sages and the Panulas are more likely to have been accommodated there.

On the body of Anthony William Sage (1899-1912) a ticket was found that indicated that he was in third class cabin number 126 in third class section M, this being at the stern on the port side. So it seems that the family wasn't berthed forward, but rather aft. There is some evidence that third class women were accommodated forward however, considering a lavatory for women could be found on E-deck on the starboard side.

 

[TimTurner]

The 3rd Class open space was located forward. This was the space used for the dancing scene in the James Cameron movie.