Titanic, alternate signalling methods

[TITANIC & OLYMPIC]

Why didn't Captain Smith order any other methods of visual signalling? He knew the ship was doomed and that they were not having much luck with the rockets or lamps. What about a signal fire?

I believe such signalling was still being mentioned as a recognized visual signal of distress in 1912. It is my understanding that it would be the light of the flames that would be observed at night, and perhaps the large volume of smoke at daylight might attract attention.

 

[Dave Gittins]

I suspect the signal made by starting a fire was just a hangover from the days of sail. Captain Smith probably never gave it a thought. Done on a sufficiently grand scale it might have done some good.

 

[TITANIC & OLYMPIC]

That's probably true, I suppose that it would have been difficult to come up with something non flammable that could be used to contain the fire. The last thing they needed was an out of control fire. Actually, given the size and layout of Titanic where would they have even set it up at?

Still, perhaps the glow of a (rather large as you point out) signal fire might have gotten more attention from the Californian, the idea of a fire at sea would likely have spurred them to some action. But it's more of a "what if", in the "we'll never know" category.

 

[Adam Went]

I seriously wonder whether anything would have got the attention of the crew on the Californian. Rockets were fired, seen and ignored consistently. The 'list' of the ship was noted, and ignored. The wireless was not checked. So bearing all of this in mind, I wonder even if there had been a signal fire or similar, whether it would have made any difference. The crew on the Californian seem to have been pretty daft, they probably would have just put it down to more shenanigans at sea.

 

[TITANIC & OLYMPIC]

I seem to remember reading (from a 1912 era source) that another signal of distress was a continuous sounding of a whistle, if there was a belief that the ship on the horizon was closer than it really was I wonder why they didn't blow them. Of course I don't recall what the audible range was.

But really, if all else had failed I'm a little surprised they didn't try other means out of sheer desperation. They could see a ship, but just couldn't seem to catch it's attention.

 

[Adam Went]

I suspect that a lot of it was in an attempt to not alarm the passengers any more than necessary. Enough could be seen from the bridge of the Californian to suggest that something wasn't quite right, the least they could have done was have the wireless checked for any important signals, even if they had had a...er....difference of opinion a bit earlier on. The wireless system wasn't just there for decoration!

Cheers,
Adam.

 

[Jim Currie]

The then regulations specified flames as from a burning tar barrel. 'Titanic would have plenty of tar on board for caulking her wood sheathed decks. She would also have had plenty of empty barrels.
Smoke during the day would only be useful at close range since, when far away, it might be mistaken for the smoke from someone's funnel.
It might have been a throw-back from sailing ship days but it was still in force well into the 1960s.



Apart from anything else, the other ship near to 'Californian' was not 'Titanic'. For five very simple reasons which seem to escape most researchers and the members of both Inquiries.

From the Transcripts:

1: The vessel seen from the bridge of 'Titanic' was MOVING and getting CLOSER. Her masthead lights were seen first. Later her red port light was seen. Then both her sidelights and masthead lights. Then her green starboard lights before she turned away and showed her stern light.

2: 'Californian' was stopped for 1 hour 30 minutes before 'Titanic' hit the iceberg and 1 hour 50 minutes before the ship near 'Titanic was seen by those on her bridge.

3: The lookouts on 'Titanic' did not see any other vessel before the ship hit the iceberg yet they had perfect visibilty for a very great distance. They would most certainly have seen 'Californian' if she was within sight because if 'Californian' could see 'Titanic' then 'Titanic's lookouts would most certainly see 'Californian'.

4: The ship that stopped near 'Californian' did so at 11-40pm ship time. The equivalent GMT was 15d. 02h 50m. At that moment, 'Titanic' was still underway and 3.6 miles away from the iceberg. She did not hit it until 10 minutes later at
15d 03h 00m GMT.

5: If the vessel near to 'Californian' fired rockets of the type carried by 'Titanic', the noise of their detonation would have been heard by everyone on board Californian... including those asleep. Additionally, the bursting stars or ball would have brightly illuminated the ship and she would be clearly visible to any one less than 10 miles away using binoculars.

Apart from all the foregoing show-stoppers, Captain Lord was not advised of the firing of those rockets until the second one was clearly identified by his second officer. If he had then called his wireless operator and that person had received 'Titanic's' false distress position, the captain would have been totally confused. He would have had a ship letting off rockets to his south eastward and another ship in distress to his South-southwestward, across a barrier of pack ice.
Which one should he have responded to?

Jim C

 

[TITANIC & OLYMPIC]

Jim, would the flames have been visible at night at such a distance as the mystery ship was at?

Good reasons for the Californian to have not been the mystery ship, about the last part. I suspect that had Captain Lord decided to investigate the rockets he would have had his wireless operator check for any messages of distress, I do not have all the transcripts of Titanic's messages at hand but I do believe there was mention of firing rockets in a couple of them, so I would suspect Captain Lord might have figured it out as he got nearer to the ship.

And a foolish question, with all the discussion of Titanic's time I wonder if Californian's time was the same at 11:40ish?

 

[Jim Currie]

Hello there T&O!

Captain Lord told the US Inquiry that his ship time was 1 hour 50 minutes fast of New York time. The Operator on Californian said that his ship time was 1 hour 55 minutes fast of New York time. There is a reason for the difference which I won't bore you with.

I'm not sure what you mean by 11-40ish. That was the ship time given by Californian's 3rd Officer Groves for when the mystery ship stopped nearby .

The ship near to Titanic was about 5 miles away. Flames from a burning barrel would not have been seen with the naked eye but would easily have been seen with the ship's telescope. Most ships carried one and they were extemely good for up to 12 miles.

Had he called his wireless operator earlier, Captain Lord would have done exactly the same thing as he did at 6pm that morning.. he would have set course for the distress position being transmitted by Titanic. If his operator had listened-in just after the first rockets were seen by 2nd Officer Stone, he would have received the coordinated for the distress position direct from Titanic.
Captain Lord would be able to calculate the direction to travel in to get to Titanic. It would not be the direction Stone had seen those rockets. Lord would then have been torn betwen the devil and the deep blue sea.
In fact, Lord was a first class seaman. He did not accept the first Titanic distress position given to him later on that morning but made his wireless operator check again and only proceeded when he had official information.
He would have done exactly the same earlier. He would have noted that the rockets seen by Stone were to the southeastward yet the direction to sail to Titanic was to the southwestward. he would get his operator to call Titanic again and would have received confirmation directly from her operator Phillips.

There is a great deal of intellectual speculation and unthinking rubbish written about this ship and what part she and her master played in the drama. A great deal of half-cocked theories based on the careless work done by both Inquiries and later by the UK Coastguard Marine Accident Investigation Branch have been aired ad nauseum I suspect the MAB merely responded to their political masters and simply up-dated the earlier flawed work.

JIm C

 

[TITANIC & OLYMPIC]

Hi Jim

I was just asking if Californian was was on the same time as Titanic at 11:40PM or if there was a difference between the ships at that time.

 

[Jim Currie]

Hello T&O,

Yes there was indeed time differences between the two ships. It is a very sore point of controversy between researchers.

I was trying to avoid this but I'll explain as best I can.

At Noon on April 14, Titanic was 2 hour 58 minutes SLOW of GMT. At the same moment, Californian was 3 hours 10 minutes SLOW of GMT. There was therefore a 12 minute difference between ship-board times. It follows that at 11-40pm on Californian that night, the equivalent GMT was 15d 02-50am and the time on board Titanic would be 11-52am. The recorded time of impact was 12 minutes earlier at 11-40 ship time.
If Titanic had not changed her clocks before impact, the ship which stopped near Californian would still have been approaching her for another 12 minutes after Titanic had hit the iceberg.

Titanic had planned to set her clocks back a total of 47 minutes that night. 24 minutes at Midnight April 14 and the remaining 23 minutes during the following 6 hours. If she had made the first 24 minute change before impact then the difference between her clocks and GMT would have increased to 3 hours 22 minutes. This would still give a GMT to ship time difference between the two ships of 12 minutes. Thus when it was 15d 02-50am on Californian. it was 11-28pm on board Titanic and she still had 12 minutes to run before impact. The ship near Californian would have been stopped for 12 minutes before then.

However, this is all academic because Captain Rostron of Carpathia sent a message to his owners that Titanic had hit the iceberg at 15d 3-00am GMT.
The reported ship-board time of impact was 11-40pm April 14. This gives a Titanic ship to GMT time difference of 3 hours 20 minutes, not the 2 hours 58 minutes as was at Noon April 14. It follows that the first adjustment had been made BEFORE impact and that when it was 11-40pm on board Californian...15d 02-50am GMT, it was 11-28pm on board Titanic and she had another 12 minutes to run before she hit the iceberg.

Whatever way you look at the problem; because of the 24 minute planned time adjustment, Titanic ship time was either 12 minutes FAST of Californian ship time or 12 minutes SLOW of it. I believe it was the latter.

Jim C.

 

[TITANIC & OLYMPIC]

Hi Jim,

I appreciate your taking the time for such an answer, I very much liked your condensed version of the matter which is very clear. I've followed the discussions on the time aboard Titanic but haven't tried to enter the discussion on Californian time- yet.

I suppose I have some reading to do!

Thanks!

(I remember 20 years ago being particularly NOT impressed by the portrayal of the Californian, her master and crew in the books and movies available at the time.)