Not sure what you mean by the "first lifeboat" but since you mentioned that it could hold up to 60 people, you could only be referring to the standard wooden lifeboats. The first lifeboat launched, Lifeboat #7, was one such but it had 25 people, not 12. Lifeboat #1 per se was an already swung out emergency cutter and could hold up to 40 people and was the fifth or sixth overall to reach the water. It is true that it had only 12 people on board when lowered, but we have already been though the reasons why that happened a few times and so I see no point in going through that again.
Smith pocketed just one - but vital - iceberg warning from another WSL ship, the Baltic. Yes, his handling of that important message was very questionable and theoretically at least might have helped to avoid the accident had Smith given it more importance.
The last time I checked, the Titanic had Captain Smith and 7 Officers. Perhaps 2 more had stowed away?
That might be your opinion but it does not mean it was the truth.
That myth about the steerage passengers being "kept behind locked gates" has been propagated by most Titanic films for dramatic effect. Again, that point has been discussed several times in the past in these forums. There were some gates that were kept locked during normal voyage because it was standard practice in those days to keep the Third Class passengers away from the 'higher' sections. It was just that in the confusion that occurred after the accident, most of those gates were not unlocked and it is possible that some passengers congregated behind them in the mistaken belief that it was their only way up to the boat deck. While the routes that the Third Class passengers had to take to reach the upper decks were long and convoluted, they were there. In fact, the very first Third Class passenger to survive, Fahim al-Zainni, was a single male traveller and so almost certainly berthed in the bow section. He managed to sneak into Lifeboat #6.
Many people, including me, agree that as far as his own ship the Californian, was concerned, Captain Stanley Lord was excellent with his decisions. When he considered that it was unsafe to proceed through the ice, he stopped his ship for the night, but the routine watches were very much still in place. Having done that, Lord was just dozing in full uniform in the chart room and NOT asleep in his pajamas in his cabin like depicted in the 1958 film ANTR. That does not sound very much like "complete dereliction of duty".
As for his being "drunk, intoxicated and asleep" in his cabin, the less said about such a comment the better.
Arun,
OK...so, lets take your counter points one by one, shall we.
I believe in the previous response I told you you may have a better knowledge of exactly who was in which boat as it left the ship, as that area has never been my expertise...other than Collapsible A & B...as those survivors in my personal opinion were critical to reporting the facts of what their experiences were that night...Lightoller, Bride, Gracie etc. The 12 passenger...actually 13 passengers I was making mention of...is Boat # 1
Again you seem to miss the point entirely when I say the loading of the lifeboats was haphazard, and not well organized.
How else could only 13 people could have been lowered...most of which were crew! So, lets count the passengers on board Lifeboat # 1
Lord &
Lady Duff Gordon, Miss Francatelli, Lady Duff's secretary & 2 gentlemen Stengal & Soloman, That's 5 passengers...AND 8 crew! All this overseen by officer Murdoch and Lowe...all this in a boat that holds 40 (Rescue Cutter) And you have the gall to tell me there was no haphazard loading, badly organized. Both the American Inquiry and the BBoT reports specifically make mention of this fact!
Marconigrams
Yes, you are correct Capt. Smith only pocketed 1 ice warning...I was again painting the big picture of the continual series of events that result in the collision...there are about 25 different things that occurred that evening that if handled correctly would have changed the outcome that night.
The point in my response was that the ineffective inconsistent way the ice berg warnings came through Philips and Bride...they were not systematically posted and reported in the chart room like they should have as soon as the first ice warning was received Different officers handled the message each received inconsistently. Had the ice messages have all been all posted there...I am sure officer on watch would have made recommendation to steer south or slow down.
Officers
I wrote incorrectly. Yes, there was Capt. Smith and 7 officers. (not 9)
Decided to promote two of the Quartermaster's to officer status.
That matches the tone of your response about the stowaways
Not quite sure what exact reference you mean when you state "That might be your opinion but it does not mean it was the truth."
All of what I have shared on this platform is "my opinion"..I have never attempted to say that my comments were all pure facts.
I attempt to present facts as determined by what is known and accepted...but this tragedy had so much that cannot be 100% verified that extrapolation is required especially in the areas that I have written about.
The myth of Steerage passengers held back that you so freely state...did not occur...did occur...in certain locations. Again it is semantics.
You say it was simply that 3rd lass didn't know how to access the correct location and series of stairwells to get from their deck to the upper decks where the lifeboats were being lowered. I believe 3rd class was not given any priority, and that the focus was on 1st and 2nd class until well into the timeline. The crew in charge of 3rd class do not seem to have been been well managed/supervised which is strange considering there were about 250 stewards on board Titanic. I am sure you will clarify for me exactly how many stewards there were on board....go on break down title if you wish, and exactly how many were assigned to 3rd class. Bottom line although the surviving numbers of 3rd class don't look so bad..on percentage basis it tells a different story. One has to understand the Victorian class structure on board this little piece of England, to be able to accept that steerage was treated as 3rd class passengers when it came down to life and death.
To end this rebuttal to your comments...I am astounded at your comment
"Many people, including me, agree that as far as his own ship the
Californian, was concerned, Captain Stanley Lord was excellent with his decisions." Holy Toledo....I completely disagree with you. You are a Lordite if ever there was one! Both Inquires found Lord of failing to come to the assistance of a ship in distress. He failed to allow his ship & crew to respond to the white rockets. He failed to wake up the Marconi operator. Lord hid behind his "do nothing" actions...next, your tell me that the Californian was not 10-19 miles away from Titanic...and that it was really the illegal whaler Sampson.
Lord made a decision to stop when he was surrounded by pack ice...that is not rocket science! and in my opinion doesn't not qualify as a good decision...and if so, was the only one he made that night!
When you look at what occurred on board the Californian that evening... and exactly how Lord was contacted and responded and his total and complete lack of action...like get the hell up and take a look yourself at the rockets, or wake up the Marconi operator...tells me that he was not using sound judgement...now what causes unsound judgement...based on the complete lack of any logical action by Lord, I can only come to the conclusion that he was somewhat incapacitated and the most logical explanation would be liquor...this accounts for his interactions with the crew on watch that left the crew scratching their heads. Again, I am posing my theory for this captains complete lack of action to determine and quantity the nature of the information he was presented with, and could not even drag himself (dressed) out of bed/watch room. I have read his testimony before the US Inquiry and BBoT and I believe he lied. So did the Leyland Line when they dismissed him in August of 1912.
Thank God...Arun, you are entitled to your own opinion but don't go around telling me "the less said" about Lord being incapacitated to demonstrate command "the better".
Please attempt to refrain from any further factual clarification from your point of view on this thread.
Kind regards,
Frederick
