markpekrul
Member
Was there a single person in charge of this department? Chief Steward Latimer? Hugh McElroy? How did the chain of command work - i.e. who did the Bellboys , the cooks or the stenographer report up to?
Victualling Department - Who's in Charge?
- Thread starter markpekrul
- Start date
Thomas Krom
Member
The bellboys and stenographer reported to the enquiry office under Purser McElroy. The cooks of the galley on D-deck reported to the chef, Charles Proctor, who worked closely together with purser McElroy. I got an entire list of all the duties of the victualling crew laying about somewhere.
markpekrul
Member
Thank you! That list would be a great help, as I have a few questions about the stewards as well.
Thomas Krom
Member
Perhaps you can ask them here already. I'll use the document I have as a source if there's an answer to it.
markpekrul
Member
I will - I am in the process of sifting through the information from the crew bios, so probably later tonight. Thank you so much!
markpekrul
Member
Here we go - and thank you in advance:
1) William Willis is listed as a 3rd Class Packer Steward - the only such position on the roster - what was this?
2) Dean and Terrill are listed as Assistant Saloon Stewards, 4 others are listed as 2nd Class Asst. Saloon Stewards - are Dean and Terrill with the 1st Class bunch, and if so that would make them the only assistants out of nearly 100 saloon stewards...should they properly be listed simply as Saloon Stewards? It looks more appropriate in 2nd Class with 4 assts. because there are not nearly as many 2nd Class Saloon stewards.
3) Gibbons is listed as a 2nd Class Steward - the only person so listed. Should this be a Saloon or Bedroom steward perhaps?
4) Broom and Widgery are listed as Bath Stewards, as opposed to several others shown as bathroom stewards - is this because they were actually swimming bath attendants, perhaps?
5) Ashe and White are shown as 3rd Class Glory Hole Stewards - my understanding was that Glory Holes were crew quarters - was there a 3rd class glory hole? What was it?
6) Donald Campbell is listed as a 3rd Class Clerk - 3rd class had a clerk? There is another shown as simply a clerk.
7) Is there any meaningful difference between Pantryman Steward and Pantry Steward?
8) Pook and Ackerman are listed as Assistant Pantrymen, as opposed to others shown as 1st Class Asst. Pantry Stewards - were Pook and Ackerman in 2nd class?
9) No 1st Class Library Steward is listed - Thomas Kelland is listed as the 2nd Class Library Steward. Who did this job in 1st?
10) Did the Lounge and Smoke Room Stewards service both 1st and 2nd Class spaces?
Thank you!
1) William Willis is listed as a 3rd Class Packer Steward - the only such position on the roster - what was this?
2) Dean and Terrill are listed as Assistant Saloon Stewards, 4 others are listed as 2nd Class Asst. Saloon Stewards - are Dean and Terrill with the 1st Class bunch, and if so that would make them the only assistants out of nearly 100 saloon stewards...should they properly be listed simply as Saloon Stewards? It looks more appropriate in 2nd Class with 4 assts. because there are not nearly as many 2nd Class Saloon stewards.
3) Gibbons is listed as a 2nd Class Steward - the only person so listed. Should this be a Saloon or Bedroom steward perhaps?
4) Broom and Widgery are listed as Bath Stewards, as opposed to several others shown as bathroom stewards - is this because they were actually swimming bath attendants, perhaps?
5) Ashe and White are shown as 3rd Class Glory Hole Stewards - my understanding was that Glory Holes were crew quarters - was there a 3rd class glory hole? What was it?
6) Donald Campbell is listed as a 3rd Class Clerk - 3rd class had a clerk? There is another shown as simply a clerk.
7) Is there any meaningful difference between Pantryman Steward and Pantry Steward?
8) Pook and Ackerman are listed as Assistant Pantrymen, as opposed to others shown as 1st Class Asst. Pantry Stewards - were Pook and Ackerman in 2nd class?
9) No 1st Class Library Steward is listed - Thomas Kelland is listed as the 2nd Class Library Steward. Who did this job in 1st?
10) Did the Lounge and Smoke Room Stewards service both 1st and 2nd Class spaces?
Thank you!
Thomas Krom
Member
In some lists Willis is indicated as a normal third class steward, so there is a chance he wasn't a packer steward.
All assistant saloon stewards were second class stewards, and they were with much more. Here is a complete list of them:
Assistant second class saloon steward Charles Edward Andrews (1893-1961)
Assistant second class saloon steward Herbert Harry Christmas (1878-1912)
Assistant second class saloon steward George Fox Hopkins Dean (1892-1912)
Assistant second class saloon steward Joseph Alfred Gunn (1882-1912)
Assistant second class saloon steward Humphrey Humphreys (1880-1912)
Assistant second class saloon steward William Thomas Kerley (1884-1912)
Assistant second class saloon steward Bertie William Lacey (1892-1912)
Assistant second class saloon steward Walter Henry Nichols (1876-1960)
Assistant second class saloon steward Lewis Owen (1862-1912)
Assistant second class saloon steward William Farr Penny (1880-1912)
Assistant second class saloon steward George Edward Roberton (1892-1912)
Assistant second class saloon steward Frank Terrill (1884-19?)
Assistant second class saloon steward Walter John Williams (1883-1971)
Assistant second class saloon steward James Thomas Wood (1863-1912)
Jacob William Gibbons was a second class saloon steward. All second class bedroom stewards died during the sinking, sadly.
Isaac George Widgery (1875-1942) testified at the American Senate Inquiry that he was a bathroom steward. Hebert George Broom (1879-1912)was listed in the same position as Widgery on the sign on list.
They were just glory hole stewards, and looked after the dormitories of their fellow crewmembers and delivered some of them their meals. There was no glory hole for third class on the Titanic. Of the 4 only 1 survived.
Donald Samuel Campbell (1884-1912) was the second class purser clerk.
It's the same position.
Assistant pantryman Percy Robert Pook (1876-1912) was assigned to the second class pantry while Joseph Francis Akerman was a first class pantryman.
There was no room listed as the first class library, the first class lounge served as the first class library so Lounge steward Richard Edward J Burke (1882-1912) and Assistant lounge steward Charles Frederick Back (1875-1912) were the equivalent of Kelland so to say.
No, most certainly not. Both smoking rooms had their own stewards assigned to them (saloon stewards would often assist them), first class had:
Smoke room steward Brook Holden Webb (1862-1912)
Assistant smoke room steward Ernest Hamilton (1886-1912)
While second class had:
Second class smoking room steward James William Cheetham Witter (1880-1961)
As mentioned before the first class lounge and second class library had their own stewards too.
markpekrul
Member
Amazing - thank you! With regard, then, to the swimming bath - did it have dedicated attendant(s) like the raquet court, Turkish bath and gym did?
Also, why would James Paintin - the Captain's steward - have been included with the Victualling crew? The deck and engineering departments each had stewards specific to their areas assigned directly to them.
Also, why would James Paintin - the Captain's steward - have been included with the Victualling crew? The deck and engineering departments each had stewards specific to their areas assigned directly to them.
Thomas Krom
Member
From the account of Colonel Gracie IV we know there was an attendant, whom described:
He implies he sadly died during the sinking. For his identity we can only guess unfortunately.
You of-course refer to the mess stewards and such. It is believed that they weren't only stewards but cooks as well. The captain’s steward/Tiger James Arthur Paintin (1882-1912) was assigned to the victualling crew since his duties were more comparable to a bedroom steward as being the personal valet of the captain.
markpekrul
Member
Thanks again - I may be back in a few days with some questions as to the engineering crew.
While I have you - there were a good number of able seamen, but only two able-bodied seamen and 2 seamen. I know from the bios that seamen rated below able seamen. Were Able-bodied seamen the leads for this particular category of crew?
While I have you - there were a good number of able seamen, but only two able-bodied seamen and 2 seamen. I know from the bios that seamen rated below able seamen. Were Able-bodied seamen the leads for this particular category of crew?
Thomas Krom
Member
There were a total of 29 able bodied seamen, they are listed below:
Able bodied seaman John Anderson (1870-1914?)
Able bodied seaman Ernest Edward Archer (1876-1917)
Able bodied seaman Thomas Henry Bradley (1883-1912)
Able bodied seaman Walter Thomas Brice (1869-1928)
Able bodied seaman Edward John Buley (1885-1917)
Able bodied seaman Frederick Charles Clench (1878-1930)
Able bodied seaman George James Clench (1881-1912)
Able bodied seaman Frank Couch (1884-1912)
Able bodied seaman Stephen James Davis (1873-1912)
Able bodied seaman Frank Oliver Evans (1884-1952)
Able bodied seaman James Forward (1884-1940)
Able bodied seaman Harry Holman (1883-1912)
Able bodied seaman Robert John Hopkins (1868-1943)
Able bodied seaman Albert Edward James Horswill (1879-1962)
Able bodied seaman Thomas William Jones (1877-1967)
Able bodied seaman William Arthur Lucas (1886-1921)
Able bodied seaman William Henry Lyons (1886-1912)
Able bodied seaman David Matherson (1879-1912)
Able bodied seaman William McCarthy (1863-1932)
Able bodied seaman George Francis McGough (1875-1940)
Able bodied seaman George Alfred Moore (1880-1943)
Able bodied seaman Frank Osman (1885-1938)
Able bodied seaman Charles Henry Pascoe (1867-1937)
Able bodied seaman William Chapman Peters (1886-1950)
Able bodied seaman John Thomas Poingdestre (1884-193?)
Able bodied seaman Joseph George Scarrott (1878-1938)
Able bodied seaman Charles William Frederick Taylor (1871-1912)
Able bodied seaman Philip Francis Vigott (1879-1941)
Able bodied seaman William Clifford Weller (1881-1954)
However, there were indeed two ordinary seamen:
Seaman William Smith (1886-1912)
Seaman Bertram Terrell (1893-1912)
The rank was based onto how many years experience they had as a seaman. They all had the same monthly of 5 Pounds however.
markpekrul
Member
Thanks!
