White Star Line Presentation Goblets

[Ray Perks]

Here is a pair of very large goblets that hold just over 1 1/2 pints each!

It is believed that these original items were presented to dignitaries visiting the (presumably) larger ships which had first class passenger facilities, quite possibly presented by the ships Captain.

Whilst almost identical there are minor variations in size, in particular the thickness of the foot which demonstrates the hand made nature of this type of glassware. Most probably made in the Stourbridge area of the Midlands UK.

If you have any information on these type of items I'd appreciate hearing from you.

 

[Steve Santini]

Hi Ray,

What record is there of any Captains of any WSL ships presenting anything like these?

The only record of any such presentation items that seems to stand up so far is of a handful of Spode R4332 pattern demitasse cups and suacers.

Can you please tell me more about the research behind these items?

They certainly do not resemble the fine cut glass and crystal as was produced by Stuart for the first class on many WSL ships.

To my mind, if one were to present anything, would one not wish to present the very best, as with the Spode R4332 china?

Thank you, Steve Santini

 

[trevor ward powell]

Ray,

Why don't you contact the site below. They are a wonderful source for researching white star cutlery, and they can probably provide you with additional information on your goblets.

http://titanic.marconigraph.com/mgy_china.html

 

[Ray Perks]

Hi Steve,
thanks for your comments and questions.

You have opened up some interesting issues.

There is no formal research (as far as I am aware) although the owner of one of these goblets believed they were made for presentation purposes. Like you one would tend to presume that presentational items would be of a much finer ilk but rhetorically speaking - who knows? I don't for one.

I have an identical port wine glass - identical in form that is, with an identical burgee again uncut.
Whilst these items may or may not have been intended for First Class use or indeed as presentational items I am struggling to think what the could have been used for. I for one wouldn't want a pint and a half of wine in one sitting. (Mmmmm... dunno though...!)

One would assume that not all glassware made for these type of ships was cut glass of Stuart origin so maybe second or third class even? But why so very large? As far as one can be certain I am certain these items (and I have a lot of WSL original glassware) are authentic. I have also seen a lot of modern day reproduction as well!
Cheers

 

[Ray Perks]

Hi Trevor,
thanks for the link - will check it out with Russ.
Cheers
Ray

 

[Steve Santini]

Hi Ray,

Please do not think I was trying to imply these were not authentic because I was not.

Perhaps a 2nd or 3rd class function seems more likely. Given the VERY large size of these maybe they were intended as large water tumblers or goblets.

Good luck in find out more about them!

Steve Santini

 

[Steve Santini]

One more thing...

Regarding the burgee;

On all of the WSL glass ware and crystal items I have seen or once owned, the outline of the star and sometimes of the outline of the flag as well as the pole is cut into the material.

The process that gives the flag it's frosted look involves what is called acid etching and entails making up a template which mimmicks the flag's shape and a second template which covers the star. Then acid is applied to the exposed glass giving the field of the flag a frosted look.

On Red Star Line glass and crystal the same process is used , only in reverse.

Steve Santini

 

[Ray Perks]

No Steve, I didn't take that interpretation.
As ever your searching questions have caused me not to take for granted what one is told. I agree 2nd class likely, more likely than 3rd I guess but what is bugging me is why so large! However I have come to understand that things that we don't use nowadays were in common use in the Victorian, Edwardian and Georgian periods so what we see as strange now may have been quite normal then.

Yes you are absolutely correct regarding the acid etching of the burgee in fact one of the tests for "old" glass is to close your eyes, run your fingertips over the frost and if you cannot feel it, it is likely to be acid etched. Sand blasting came in later in the century, produces a much deeper imprint and is rougher than etched products and generally denotes later production, and in some instances either fake or reproduction. However (and there is always a but) I have a glass, certainly authentic, which has the burgee hand cut into the bowl - it was in fact a salesman's sample from which the customers could see the design - very rare indeed. I got this from the glass quarter of Stourbridge - I live about 2 miles from there and it was validated by an ex Stuart crystal cutter. One thing I didn't do was to take the goblets - will get round to it soon and see what he / they say. (there remains a healthy number of glass producers here, even though Stuart Crystal shut down their glassmaking facility a couple of years ago and production was transferred to Waterford in Eire.) What many people do not realise is that a lot of the Stuart Crystal glass, like other products was supplemented by other local producers and sold under the main producers name. It still goes on now - you can buy Stuart Crystal now but it aint made by Stuart Crystal!
What I enjoy about kicking these thoughts about is that it opens up other opportunities - as obvious as though it appears I have never thought of taking the goblets to the glass quarter of Stourbridge so thanks for the stimulation!

By the way I did send you a private e-mail - did it ever reach you?

Cheers

 

[Steve Santini]

Hi Ray,

No, it did not reach me.

Try e mailing me at [email protected]

That will get to me.

Cheers, Steve Santini