Not Ghosts But Just As Scary

[Clifton Johnson]

Has anybody noticed the Titanic mass homocide. The Titanic was seen as just a ship, yet after her sinking, the other relics of her story began to dissapate. The remaining lifeboats- Never Found. The Lusitania- Sank. The Carpathia- Sank. The Olympic- Scrapped. The Brittanic- Sank. The Mauretania- Scrapped. The surviving passengers and crew- deceased ( this does not apply to those still with us). The story was beautiful but it is creepy to know that the ship killed more than itself and the crew. Or did it.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>Or did it.<<

It didn't. You're reading way too much into the story I'm afraid.

•Carpathia, Lusitania, Britannic, and even the Californian were all wartime casualties.
•The Olympic and Mauritania had long and successful careers. Scrapping was just the end of the road and the same fate falls on mot other ships as well.
•The lifeboats from the Titanic were all accounted for, and the ones that ended up "missing" were abandoned at sea.
•The lifeboats that disappeared in New York were either issued to other ships or were disposed of without much thought given to it all.
•The disappearing relics? Well, a number of relics from other ships vanish into the mists of time. The difference here is that Titanic relics are being added to because of occasional recovery efforts.

Where's the spooky mystery?

 

[Deborah Russes]

I wouldn't consider the Titanic tragedy as mass homicide (homicide by general definition is the killing of one person by another). What happened to the Titanic was, by no means, intentional. Nobody pointed the ship at the iceberg.

What happened to the other ships you mention was in no way a result of or connected to the sinking of the Titanic.

 

[Clifton Johnson]

Michael,
I am quite aware that the Carpathia, Lusitania, Brittanic, and the Californian were all wartime tragedies. I was merely making a point at the fact that many of the ships involved in Titanic's story were taken from the picture. I am also quite aware that scrapping is a major part of a ship's life and remains as much so as the construction and the voyages. I do also recall that during the time that the Carpathia waited for the lifeboats and came to them, they only retrieved 13 lifeboats. a 14th lifeboat was retrieved a few weeks later. The source of that information came from Titanic: Triumph and Tragedy. In a way they are very connected to the sinking of the Titanic. The Lusitania and the Mauretania were both seen as major competitors to the White Star Line. By feeling compressed by the Cunard's acheivments, White Star felt liable to bring the world bigger and better things. The Carpathia was the only ship to come to the Titanic's rescue. The Californian is the ship that is said to have been in the area while the liner was sinking. I am quite aware that in many stories that relics will disappear. This dates back as far as the dawn of time. And yes it could be expected from one of the more famous maritime disasters. However, the story of the Titanic is one of mystery as we still have very little information on it. It is odd though that the biggest liner in the world crashes on it's maiden voyage into an iceberg that allows so many people to die. Nobody may have pointed the ship into the iceberg but it is still very ironic. The mass homocide may have been a bit of an exaggeration but it still is a way to look at the disappearances and scrappings.
Have A Nice Day

Cliff Johnson

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>I was merely making a point at the fact that many of the ships involved in Titanic's story were taken from the picture.<<

As were a lot of ships that were never involved in the events at all. In that light, I can't really see the signifigence in any of the points you made.

>>The Lusitania and the Mauretania were both seen as major competitors to the White Star Line. By feeling compressed by the Cunard's acheivments, White Star felt liable to bring the world bigger and better things.<<

That was a very common attitude of the time and not just with White Star. The Germans were players in the game too and the produced some ships that were even larger and grander then anything White Star ever tried to produce. Shipping lines continued with the practice of trying to make it bigger, better, or both practically up to the time that liners ceased to be an important means of transportation. That element of competition persists to this day in the cruise ship industry.

>>However, the story of the Titanic is one of mystery as we still have very little information on it.<<

On the contrary. The Titanic is, in my observation, one of the most over documented shipwrecks of all time and the source of a lot of myth and metephore which unfortunately leads to the events being the most misunderstood. How many shipwrecks have been the subject of two government investigations on both sides of the ocean?

Not many.

How many shipwrecks have had books about it written that number in the hundreds and possibly close to a thousand in the english language alone. I can't think of any.

A dearth of information isn't the problem. We have the evidence given in Two Inquiries to say nothing of depositions from the civil suits that came after the fact as well as first hand accounts/books written by survivors. The problem is that a lot of the information that makes it into the popular histories is misleading and/or just plain wrong.

>>The mass homocide may have been a bit of an exaggeration but it still is a way to look at the disappearances and scrappings.<<

Opinion noted and disagreed with. From this sailors perspective, it's just the natural course of events in which people and things come and go.

Nothing especially extrordinary about that.

 

[Ryan McKeefery]

Clifton - just like to point a thing or two out to you...
First of all, relics do not "Disappear" - they are placed in museum vaults and forgotten about.
Secondly - the sinkings of all those other ships has sod all to do with Titanic; ships sink... that's a fact of life.
Furthermore...
Titanic had 20 lifeboats.
The Carpathia found 19 lifeboats and picked up 18... collapsible A was found, the survivors taken aboard, and collapsible A was left drifting with three dead bodies in it. It was picked up by the MacKay-Bennet a couple of weeks later.
Collapsible B ended up upside-down on Titanic's deck as she sank. Several men, including Leuit. Lightoller climbed aboard it and were picked up by another lifeboat some time after the sinking.
Bit of advice - Before you add your two pennies... check if they're counterfeit.

 

[Clifton Johnson]

Never mind this thread. I may have been really depressed when I got on the message board.

 

[Roy Kristiansen]

>>The mass homocide may have been a bit of an exaggeration but it still is a way to look at the disappearances and scrappings.<<

>>. . . From this sailors perspective, it's just the natural course of events in which people and things come and go.<<

I don't think it's possible to name any of the great ships from back then that didn't come to a sad end - one way or another - except possibly the Queen Mary, which is no longer really a ship.

Roy

 

[matthew ewing]

No longer really a ship? Looks like a ship to me. in fact it's a very haunted ship. I don't follow you on how the Queen Mary isn't a ship. It may be a hotel now, but it doesn't change what it is. Yay, I finally get to question someone on what they say, congrats me. but serously, like they say a ship is a ship is a ship. nothing that you do to it will change it, unless you dismantle it of course.

 

[Jason D. Tiller]

quote:

I don't follow you on how the Queen Mary isn't a ship.

I think what Roy is getting at, is that the Queen Mary is now considered a hotel and floating museum, plus her engines were taken out so she can no longer run on her own power. Yes, she still is a ship technically, but not in the sense as we know it.​

 

[Roy Kristiansen]

Precisely, Jason. Thanks. And Matthew, keep right on asking questions. There's no better way to learn. And it never stops working for you (or me, or anyone else).


Roy

 

[Jason D. Tiller]

You're welcome, Roy. My pleasure.