The Thayers

[Adam McGuirk]

Hey, if you go to first class passengers high detail, it will say that the Thayers boarded the Titanic at Cherbourg. But not to long ago I was reading "On board the Titanic", which is about Jack Thayers and Harold Brides experiences on the Titanic. It says that Jack was on The Deck when The near collison with the New York came and gives a detailed description of what he said to his father and how an old man said it was a bad omen for that to happen. In order for Jack to have witnessed this he would of had to have boarded at Southampton, not Cherbourg. So which is right?, The site saying Cherbourg, or the book saying Southampton?

 

[Ben Holme]

Hi Adam,

The Thayers almost certainly boarded at Southampton. Mrs. Marion Thayer sent a marconigram to her sister on April 10th mentioning the New York incident and recalled that her husband had the presence of mind to take "five photos of it".

Hope this helps,

Ben

 

[Adam McGuirk]

Alright, well then they might want to change it here.

 

[Kyrila Scully]

I'm interested in Pauline Thayer's residence here in Palm Beach County (where I live), in an area called Hobe Sound. I understand she was a golf enthusiast. I'd eventually like to visit all the Palm Beach County Titanic survivors' hang-outs. I know the Breakers and Bath and Tennis Club were favorites, possibly Henry Flagler's mansion, and I have some addresses of residences, and people who may have known them. Anyone know of any other clues I might look into?

Kyrila

 

[Lester Mitcham]

With a special thank you to Ben, when Marian Thayer wrote to her sister saying: "Great excitement! Jack got five photos of it"; she also said: "which he is cabing to sell to papers at home."

Does anyone know how that would have been achieved? I guess the photos would have been developed in the Dark Room; but how would they have been cabled from Titanic?

Lester

 

[Daniel Klistorner]

I'm guessing he would be cabling the negotiations to sell the photos. The photos themselves would have been developed in the US and published in the papers celebrating the Titanic's arrival in NY at the completion of the first leg of the maiden voyage. Of course this was not to be.

Jack Thayer in his 1940 account also said they boarded at Southampton. In Herman Söldner's book of the passenger list, he has them as boarding at Cherbourg, which is why ET has them also boarding at Cherbourg. I wonder if there is other definite proof to contradict what Jack Thayer said and confirm their port of embarkation as Cherbourg. So far I personally think they boarded at Southampton.

Daniel.

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hi Daniel,

Thank you for that.

With regard to where the Thayers boarded I believe that you will find that ET had Cherbourg long before Hermann's book was published; but with both Jack saying Southampton and now his mother's reference to Jack taking photos of the near collision with the New York, I do not see how there can be any doubt that the Thayers boarded at Southampton. I believe that Cherbourg may have come from Deceased Passenger List MT 9/920/201 which lists Cherbourg as the Port of Embarkation for JB Thayer.

Lester

 

[Daniel Klistorner]

I think I remember Hermann telling me about the marconigram as simply mentioning "great excitement" which does not necessarily mean the near-collision at Southampton.

I've had a look at both accounts, that of Jack Thayer and his mother (Mrs. Thayer's affidavit being partially reprinted in the Michael Davie book). His mother doesn't say anything about their port of embarkation, whilst Jack Thayer in his 1940 account goes on to mention the near-collision at Southampton, mentions boarding at that port, calling at Cherbourg etc.

Perhaps his mind was a little fogged after 28 years, then again perhaps not. Why would he make it all up. He was writing the account as a record for his family and if they did board at Cherbourg I don't see why he wouldn't say so.

Daniel.

 

[Jason D. Tiller]

Hi Daniel,

I agree with you. I also don't see any reason why Jack would lie about something like that.

Best regards,

Jason

 

[Paul Jones]

Jack Thayer's death was ruled a suicide but there was a rumor that he was murdered. If he was murdered does anybody know who murdered him and the reason why?

 

[John M. Feeney]

Paul: I'm one of the major adherents to the belief that Jack Thayer's "suicide" and its ascribed motives were a rather hasty call. The circumstances surrounding his death seem peculiar in a few ways -- to me, at least. And with Pennsylvania's then Lieutenant Governor, as friend of the family, having been directly involved in some of the investigative decision-making, I don't think it's at all inconceivable that a more exhaustive investigation might have been stifled, for better or worse.

As for any direct suggestion of murder (or more generally, homicide), I suspect it's entirely possible from what I've found, though I certainly wouldn't want to just venture a guess as to a culprit or motive. The one thing that's reasonably clear to me from the news accounts is that certain details and the questions that might otherwise have arisen from them seem to have been glossed over far too quickly.

I sent Phil Hind a second version of Jack Thayer's obituary and two follow-up articles a while back -- from the [Philadelphia] "Evening Bulletin" -- which include additional details of the discovery and aftermath, though I don't know if they've ever made it to the ET biographical section. (If not, and there's interest, I'll just post them here.)

 

[Michael H. Standart]

I just checked Jack Theyer's bio and nothing from The Phildelphia Evening Bulletin is listed there. Seems odd that the obit mentioned that Jack had been dead for 40 hours when the body was found. Wasn't he found in a very public place? Strange that nobody would notice if this is the case.

In any event, sign me on as interested.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Brandon Whited]

Michael,

Yes, he was found in a very public place; beside a trolley line, or something of the like. I think the fact that his body wasn't discovered for two days and then it is suddenly found out in broad view is what triggered the murder theory. But, how do we know that when he was found he wasn't lying down in the seat? If that was the case, then I could see how he would go undiscovered for awhile. If you saw a parked car in a public area that appeared to be empty, would you think anything of it?

Jack Thayer has always been my favorite passenger, and I have to say that I go with the suicide idea. It has been said he did it because he was depressed over his son being killed in World War II; others argue that because that had been over two years earlier, he wouldn't have killed himself over it. But I know for a fact that once depression sets in, it won't go away easily. Plus, on top of his son's death, his mother passed away on the 32nd anniversary of the Titanic's collision with the iceberg; a little over a year before he was found dead. Throw that on top of an already existing depression, and you've got one unhappy man!


Cheers,

-B.W.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

I noticed that bit about his son being killed in the obit. If Jack had been lying down in his car, then people might not have paid much mind, but if they could see him there....

I don't know. The obit stated that he was found with his wrists and his throat cut. While it's not inconceivable that a suicide would be that thorough, it seems to me a bit much.

It would be interesting to see what John has dug up on this.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Brandon Whited]

I'm no expert on methods of suicide, but when you slit your wrists, don't you die slowly? Perhaps he thought slitting his throat in addition to his wrists would make for a quicker death; or I could be way off on all of this. I also would like to see what John has found.


Cheers,

-B.W.