Lightoller a hero or a zero

[Haashir Ahmad]

Lightoller was the highest ranked crew member to survive. he just barely escaped the ship itself but for some he was hailed as a hero!
was he worthy of this role, now he did order crew members to open the gangway doors which did cause the angling of how the ship sank, the crew also never came back as they were presumed dead after carrying out their final order! Lightoller also denied men to come in the boat when no women would! He refused to launch a boat at its full capacity! Now people hail him as a hero but I really don't understand why? Was it because of him staying at his post until he got threw into the water! Well Moody denied the chance to get into a boat and gave his seat to 5th officer Harold Lowe. Murdoch and Wilde also stayed at their posts until the very end sadly not being able to escape! Was it Lightoller's miraculous escape that hot him he's heroism, because his escape was just pure luck, all he did was be lucky enough to be able to survive so in my books he's not exactly a zero but definitely not a hero!

 

[Arun Vajpey]

With respect, I don't think this is a mature poll. IMO, Lightoller was certainly no hero on the night that the Titanic went down. But no one who qualifies as the officer of a major shipping line can be a described as a 'zero'. Furthermore, that term does not really explain what it stands for.

 

[Aly Jones]

Somewhere in the middle. Not a zero but not perfect that night either. He still did his job for the time he was living in. These days officers would had reacted differently.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Since the accident and the outcome was an "abnormal" situation, assessing individual personnel is not straightforward. Certainly, Lightoller did not do anything that could be described as "totally wrong" or similar. He discharged his duty in the way he understood it but people - including me - have rightfully questioned his understanding and logical application of the "women and children first" order. He felt that it meant them ONLY, which it clearly did not. Murdoch on the other hand, used more logic and common sense by allowing men when there was room and no women or children in the immediate vicinity.

 

[N Alison]

I do not think Lightoller is a zero. I consider him a hero but a very flawed one who made mistakes that were costy. He had his arrogant moments and his strict view on who should get in to the boats and these caused problems but I am sure he tried his best. So many want to go to extremes but he was not a zero nor was he the extreme hero ANTR made him out to him. He was a product of his time complete with the arrogance of the age that made the sinking possible to begin with.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

I do not think Lightoller is a zero. I consider him a hero but a very flawed one who made mistakes that were costy. He had his arrogant moments and his strict view on who should get in to the boats and these caused problems but I am sure he tried his best. So many want to go to extremes but he was not a zero nor was he the extreme hero ANTR made him out to him. He was a product of his time complete with the arrogance of the age that made the sinking possible to begin with.

Simply put, he was human. He did his best in a crisis situation, and made his fair share of mistakes, but when the ship went down, he went down with it. He knew the risk, and he didn't put his life before anybody else's.

 

[Kiku]

Simply put, he was human. He did his best in a crisis situation, and made his fair share of mistakes, but when the ship went down, he went down with it. He knew the risk, and he didn't put his life before anybody else's.

He disobeyed a direct order to get into a lifeboat and jumped back onto the deck of the sinking Titanic, saying 'Not damn likely'. I respect him for that.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

He disobeyed a direct order to get into a lifeboat and jumped back onto the deck of the sinking Titanic, saying 'Not damn likely'. I respect him for that.

While I have doubts about whether that exchange really took place (no way to prove it either way since Wilde did not survive), I doubt if Wilde would have - or could have - ordered Lightoller to save himself under such circumstances. It would have been more of an offer, similar to the one which Wilde had made earlier to Moody to get in and take charge of Lifeboat #14. Moody declined and offfered the place to Lowe instead, who accepted and survived while Moody eventually died.

IMO, neither Moody not Lightoller (IF he had really been made such an offer) 'disobeyed' any order since there was no order in the conventional sense. It would have been different if Wilde had followed up Moody's denial with "That's an order, Mr Moody!" but AFAIK that did not happen.

 

[Thomas Krom]

While I have doubts about whether that exchange really took place (no way to prove it either way since Wilde did not survive),

As mentioned earlier this week something on the likes of it was witnessed by chief second class steward John Hardy as recalled at the American Inquiry during the loading of collapsible Engelhardt D:

Right forward, on the port side. We launched this filled with passengers. We launched the boat parallel with the ship's side, and Mr. Lightoller and myself, two sailors, and two firemen - the two sailors were rigging the poles and getting them in working order and Mr. Lightoller and myself loaded the boat. When the boat was full, Mr. Lightoller was in the boat with me; and the chief officer came along and asked if the boat was full, and he said yes. He said he would step out himself and make room for somebody else, and he stepped back on board the ship and asked if I could row. I told him I could, and I went away in that boat.

 

[Jenna Offerty]

There will always be debates about whether or not the officers were heroes or "just doing their jobs," as well as whether Lightoller took the right courses of action or actually did the best he could, but I do believe he did what he felt was his best. Almost all of his actions are, if not the ones we might take with the benefit of hindsight, at least understandable to me through the lens of both the era as a whole as well as his own life experiences. I don't think anyone could reasonably call him a "zero."

 

[BKTanic]

I think that Lightoller was wrong to deny teen boys spaces in the boats. But I can only imagine how hectic it was that night. Had to have affected his judgment.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I think that Lightoller was wrong to deny teen boys spaces in the boats. But I can only imagine how hectic it was that night. Had to have affected his judgment.

That I agree completely. Both Murdoch and Lightoller believed that they were doing their duty but the manner in which they understood what the duty actually was under those circumstances differed between the two men. Murdoch intepreted it as "women and children first but men thereafter if there were spaces and no women or children to take-up those spaces in the immediate vicinity". Lightoller on the other hand, felt that it was "women and children only" at all costs. The fact that Murdoch successfully applied those principles and saved perhaps close to 100 men without directly compromising the life of any child or woman makes Lightoller's actions seem illogical by comparison. Therefore, in this case it is not just our hindsight.

 

[BKTanic]

That I agree completely. Both Murdoch and Lightoller believed that they were doing their duty but the manner in which they understood what the duty actually was under those circumstances differed between the two men. Murdoch intepreted it as "women and children first but men thereafter if there were spaces and no women or children to take-up those spaces in the immediate vicinity". Lightoller on the other hand, felt that it was "women and children only" at all costs. The fact that Murdoch successfully applied those principles and saved perhaps close to 100 men without directly compromising the life of any child or woman makes Lightoller's actions seem illogical by comparison. Therefore, in this case it is not just our hindsight.

You’re so right, Arun. There will continue to be lots of back and forth on this topic but to me Lightoller’s behavior was questionable.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Lightoller’s behavior was questionable.

Yes, it undoubtedly was but as there was no malicious intent involved, I would (hypothetically) reprimand him and make him realize the consequences of his actions but go no further. The way I have always seen it is that while Lightoller genuinely believed that he was doing the right thing, he was apparently not. Many of us often say quite correctly that Murdoch's strategy with loading lifeboats perhaps saved close to a 100 men, passengers and crew; therefore, we must consider the inverse and think about how many men needlessly lost their lives because of Lightoller's stand with the portside lifeboats. But the big question is, was it really Lightoller's stand?

During the loading process on the port side, Lightoller came third in seniority after Captain Smith and Wilde but neither of those two men appear to have overruled Lightoller's "women and children only" at any stage as far as I know. That, therefore begs the question if it really was Lightoller who enforced that rule in the first place. Lightoller was not involved with the loading of Lifeboats #16, #14 and #2 and was only partly involved with loading Lifeboat #8 where Wilde was in charge; yet, all those 4 boats also followed the same "women and children only" principle. Since both Smith and Wilde died, we will never know who really enforced that rule on the port side and so there is a chance that we might be pointing fingers at an accessory rather than the primary "culprit".

I have often asked myself why Lightoller (or Smith or Wilde) enforced that clearly illogical "women and children only" rule. on the port side. The only explanation that I can think of is that they believed that if they had allowed men to take up the limited number of spaces that were not being used by women or children (and there were none of those in the immediate vicinity), there might have been a stampede or riot. To illustrate this point, if Lightoller had decided to allow men to take up still available spaces in Lifeboat #12 after all women and children in the vicinity had been loaded, who would he choose and how? With at least 50 men standing around the lifeboat, any call or random selection of (say) 20 men could well have elicited a violent response from the other 30 or more.....in theory.

But then, what happened with the aft boats on the starboard side belies that theory. Lifboat #9 did not likely start loading till 01:15 am and the other three progressively later, by which time almost all concerned had realized that the Titanic was indeed sinking. I believe in Bill Wormstedt's calculation that Lifeboat #9 was lowered at about 01:28 am and in the next 13 to 14 minutes, #11, #13 and #15 were also lowered. There were plenty of both men and women on all 4 of those boats and in fact Lifeboat #15 had more men than women. Yet, apart from some probable shouting, pushing and shoving, there really was no major incident due to men unable to find places (let us momentarily forget other reasons) on the starboard aft boats.

Finally, it is all fine for us to sit back and speculate with hindsight. But the reality on the boat deck that night was different and each human being - passenger and crew - reacted accoring to circumstances in his or her immediate vicinity. We humans are no different from animals in that we too have a lot of built-in subconscious herd instinct and so respond to situations depending to a large extent in the manner in which others around us are responding to it. Therefore, it is possible that Murdoch's oft quoted calm and efficient demeanour helped in maintaining some order on the staboard side till very late in the sinking.

 

[Sarah S]

To me Lightoller is a very fascinating character. I don’t like labelling people at all. In these final hours so much happened. There were regretful actions done by Lightoller but also moments where he showed great leadership, bravery and competence. Most prominently for me was when he succesfully lead the overturned collapsible B with dozens men who probably own their lives to him, just after Mr. Lightoller had been sucked under water himself.

All circumstances regarded, his intentions were to save people and do his duty as he understood it. I don’t like to make a judgement on him, but I personally see him more in a positive way than a negative.