Evgueni Mlodik
Member
Did you ever read Ross LaManna's original draft before Joyce Eliason hacked away at it?
Alice Cleaver
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Holly Peterson
Guest
Is that the one with the Goodwin family in it? And the two lovers in first and third class, and the lady died because she froze to death when saving a child from the water and the man survived? If so, I thought that one was great. A LOT better than the real one sounds.
Evgueni Mlodik
Member
Yep, yep! And, most importantly, it didn't turn Bruce Ismay into Snidely Whiplash and kept Thomas Andrews!
Michael H. Standart
Member
>>Did you ever read Ross LaManna's original draft before Joyce Eliason hacked away at it?<<
'Friad not. I'd heard a few rumblings about it and supposedly, it was a reasonably good story. Since I haven't seen it, I can't vouch for that.
'Friad not. I'd heard a few rumblings about it and supposedly, it was a reasonably good story. Since I haven't seen it, I can't vouch for that.
Evgueni Mlodik
Member
i say check it out, interesting read! The Allisons aren't present, but it's a worthwhile exchange for a ton of other great historical subplots that pop everywhere... Though, I must admit the Benjamin Guggenheim/Leontine Aubart love affair a bit goo-goo-ga-ga.
Kyrila Scully
Member
Where does one find a copy of the script?
George L. Lorton
Member
I want to read it as well. It sounds like a better thought out version of Cameron's! Tell, tell, Evgueni!
Marilyn Lena Penner
Member
Holly: I've always believed that the Allison parents met their end looking for Trevor, rather than staying together. First of all, the only survivor of the Allison party who witnessed and understood the tragic event - Alice Cleaver - told the story of the Allisons not knowing where Trevor was.
Marilyn: How did Alice "know" that her employers did not know where Trevor was? The children would have been in the same room, in their beds, when the family was roused. Why didn't Alice stay with Mrs. Allison and Lorraine? Why did she take off with Trevor, not with both children, and get into the lifeboat?
I don't know. I assume, from the discreptancies in the newspaper accounts, that Alice told several different stories to the press. Otherwise, the press told several different stories about her. She may have had something to hide about what happened between her and Mrs. Allison, but I can't accuse her without another source saying what he/she heard or saw.
I've wondered if Alice had panicked. Was it the duty of a servant to stay with her employer at all costs? Of a nursemaid to stay with her charges - with Lorraine as well as with Trevor? Did Mrs. Allison send her and Trevor away, Lorraine refusing to go with them, clinging her mother in fear?
Marilyn: How did Alice "know" that her employers did not know where Trevor was? The children would have been in the same room, in their beds, when the family was roused. Why didn't Alice stay with Mrs. Allison and Lorraine? Why did she take off with Trevor, not with both children, and get into the lifeboat?
I don't know. I assume, from the discreptancies in the newspaper accounts, that Alice told several different stories to the press. Otherwise, the press told several different stories about her. She may have had something to hide about what happened between her and Mrs. Allison, but I can't accuse her without another source saying what he/she heard or saw.
I've wondered if Alice had panicked. Was it the duty of a servant to stay with her employer at all costs? Of a nursemaid to stay with her charges - with Lorraine as well as with Trevor? Did Mrs. Allison send her and Trevor away, Lorraine refusing to go with them, clinging her mother in fear?
Evgueni Mlodik
Member
Send me your email, George, I'll shoot it to you! ;-)
Evgueni Mlodik
Member
Same thing for you, Kyrila. I got a pdf I can send you.
George L. Lorton
Member
Sent it through ET! Thank You Evgueni!
Evgueni Mlodik
Member
Well, I sent it to all you lovely people!
George L. Lorton
Member
Thanks again, Evgueni!
I have been reading through some of the posts in this thread, and I would like to post my view on the Allisons and Nurse Alice Cleaver.
I do NOT place her at fault for the deaths of Hudson, Bess, and Lorraine. The fact that she ad " taken" Trevor was also a speculation. There are theories that the family had gone up together and that Alice and Trevor could have been separated from the rest in the confusion of the crowd. ( Separations were apparently not uncommon that night.)
Major Arthur Peuchen also quoted, " Mrs. Allison could have gotten away in perfect safety, but somebody told her Mr Allison was in a boat being lowered on the opposite side of the deck, and with her little daughter she rushed away from the boat. Apparently she reached the other side to find that Mr Allison was not there. Meanwhile our boat had put off."
It has also been said that Hudson brought Bess and Lorraine to Boat 6, and then walked off before the boat was launched. The Hudson's manservant George Swane was the only person who had known about Alice and Trevor, as he was the one who saw them off in Boat 11. The question remains if he ever found the rest of the Hudson's and informed them of Trevor's safety. If he did, it was indeed far too late for the rest of the family to save themselves.
Alice Cleaver had a duty. She was first and foremost Trevor's nurse and her job was to protect him, and she did just that. Because of her, Trevor lived. It was tragic that he was orphaned, though. But as we live today, I do not believe that we have the right to place blame on Alice for the death of her employers when we really were not there and do not know what happened to them.
I do NOT place her at fault for the deaths of Hudson, Bess, and Lorraine. The fact that she ad " taken" Trevor was also a speculation. There are theories that the family had gone up together and that Alice and Trevor could have been separated from the rest in the confusion of the crowd. ( Separations were apparently not uncommon that night.)
Major Arthur Peuchen also quoted, " Mrs. Allison could have gotten away in perfect safety, but somebody told her Mr Allison was in a boat being lowered on the opposite side of the deck, and with her little daughter she rushed away from the boat. Apparently she reached the other side to find that Mr Allison was not there. Meanwhile our boat had put off."
It has also been said that Hudson brought Bess and Lorraine to Boat 6, and then walked off before the boat was launched. The Hudson's manservant George Swane was the only person who had known about Alice and Trevor, as he was the one who saw them off in Boat 11. The question remains if he ever found the rest of the Hudson's and informed them of Trevor's safety. If he did, it was indeed far too late for the rest of the family to save themselves.
Alice Cleaver had a duty. She was first and foremost Trevor's nurse and her job was to protect him, and she did just that. Because of her, Trevor lived. It was tragic that he was orphaned, though. But as we live today, I do not believe that we have the right to place blame on Alice for the death of her employers when we really were not there and do not know what happened to them.
Arun Vajpey
Member
I know this is an old thread, but I was browsing through Judith Geller's poorly written book TITANIC: Women and Children First and noted something that I had missed before. I knew that Geller had made a stupid mistake in accusing poor Alice Cleaver of being a child killer and all that nonsense but only last night noticed that she calls the nurse as Alice Mary Cleaver, including credits of a photograph taken with baby Trevor Allison. Of course, Alice Mary Cleaver was the name of the woman who was convicted of killing her own child and then acquitted on grounds of diminished responsibility due to a fit of depression. But that woman and nothing to do with the nurse on board the Titanic who was Alice Catherine Cleaver and had a lot of experience and very clean record as a nanny for rich and influential families.
What annoys me is that Judith Geller knows that she made a major blunder in defaming a completely innocent woman but does not have the decency to admit it in public.
What annoys me is that Judith Geller knows that she made a major blunder in defaming a completely innocent woman but does not have the decency to admit it in public.
