Edgar Joseph Meyer

[Encyclopedia Titanica]

This is surely a clerical error by the cemetery, but to be fair to Mike he is not saying Meyer did not die in the sinking but that, according to the cemetery records, Meyer's ashes were deposited there in 1912. The Mausoleum plaque gives the date of death as April 15 1912.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

This is surely a clerical error by the cemetery, but to be fair to Mike he is not saying Meyer did not die in the sinking but that, according to the cemetery records, Meyer's ashes were deposited there in 1912

With respect, the following quote does appear to suggest that Mike thought he did not die in the sinking.

As we approach the 109th anniversary of the Titanic sinking, its an honor to share with everyone that the remains of Edgar Joseph Meyers have been located. He was thought to be lost at sea but during a recent search on Find A Grave, his gave site was found and cemetery records confirmed, his body was cremated

Even otherwise, IMO in sensitive things such as this, a poster should check their facts carefully because there might be descendants who might see it and feel offended. Stepping back onto the deck of a sinking ship after seeing one's loved one safely away in a lifeboat - which those like Walter Douglas, Edgar Meyer and several others did - was a very brave act, one which I personally would have had the courage to emulate. Also, it quite clearly says here on ET and elsewhere that Meyer's body was not found and so IMO to claim that his "remains have been located and he was cremated" does sound rather offensive.

If it is indeed a clerical error by the cemetery, it is a serious and one which a current descendant might take an issue with.

 

[Encyclopedia Titanica]

With respect, the following quote does appear to suggest that Mike thought he did not die in the sinking.

The grave/memorial photo has a date of April 15 1912.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Understood. But I am querying the phrase "thought lost at sea, but......" and subsequent comments that Mike used, which to an ET guest or even some members might suggest he was not lost with the ship.

In any case, the Find-a-Grave manager continues to insist that the body was found, without giving any details of where, when or by whom. If the Mackay-Bennett did not find the body, some other vessel must have done and if so and the body was positively identified, there must be a record somewhere.

 

[Encyclopedia Titanica]

I think it is much more likely that this is a memorial plaque and if there are ashes they belong to someone else. It's not unusual for that to happen.

 

[Encyclopedia Titanica]

I don't think Mike actually posted the message he got from the cemetery, but it states (and I hope he doesn't mind me quoting it):

What I can confirm is the Meyer lot card records that "ashes" were placed in the Mayer mausoleum columbarium for Edgar Meyer, and the date of death is inscribed as you saw as the day of the Titanic sinking.

The email does not actually claim that these are Meyer's ashes. They could be someone else's or indeed, as has been suggested by someone off-board, they might be symbolic ashes placed there in the absence of tangible remains.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

They could be someone else's or indeed, as has been suggested by someone off-board, they might be symbolic ashes placed there in the absence of tangible remains.

OK, that is possible. But as I said above, the site manager Bobby Kelly continues to insist that the Edgar Meyer's body was found and cremated, which would suggest that the ashes are his.

I am sorry for being persistent but in my view, the deaths of people like Percival White, Richard White, Edgar Meyer, the Stauses etc involved selflessness and courage and should be recognized as such. Imagine standing on the deck of a sinking ship knowing that an icy death is not far away.

Update: I e-mailed and spoke to Kensico Cemetery in Valhalla, NY, where the Meyer Mausoleum is located. The lady informed me that there had been other queries about this subject recently similar to the one I raised here and one of their senior historians is currently working on it.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

What I can confirm is the Meyer lot card records that "ashes" were placed in the Mayer mausoleum columbarium for Edgar Meyer, and the date of death is inscribed as you saw as the day of the Titanic sinking.

It will be interesting to find out WHEN those ashes were placed there. The Mackay-Bennett reached Halifax on 30th April 1912 with its tragic load. Of course, Halifax is in Nova Scotia, Canada and it would have taken some time to clear up formalities and for any American family to identify remains of their loved one(s) and be allowed to take them away.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I have been in touch with the Kensico Cemetery in Valhalla, NY and finally received this e-mail from my contact there.

Hello Arun,

The Kensico staff and I have reviewed the lot card records regarding the Meyer mausoleum, and we can confirm the following:

-----the lot was purchased in 1924 by Eugene Meyer, Sr.
-----on June 16 , 1925, 3 interments of ashes were recorded for the columbarium section of the Meyer mausoleum: Edgar Joseph Meyer, Harriet Meyer, and Eugene Meyer, Sr.
-----subsequent burials were Fred Ernst, Sr., 1953 (ashes); Walter Meyer, 1957 (casket), Eugene Meyer, Jr., 1959 (ashes), and Agnes Meyer, 1971 (ashes).

The cemetery can't make any comments on these interments beyond what the records support. Any additional information would have to come from the family. It is their choice, of course, to share details about any of these burials.

Thank you for reaching out to us in the interests of the Titanic crew, victims, and survivors.
Judy

It is fairly easy to see what must have happened. Edgar Meyer's parents outlived him; his mother Harriet died in 1922 and his father Eugene, after having the family Mausoleum built in 1924, died the following year. Therefore the ashes placed in the Mausoleum for Edgar Meyer 12 years after his death are symbolic and not his own, just like ET staff member Encyclopedia Titanica conjectured.

That is of course a fine memorial under the circumstances and may all concerned Rest in Peace.

 

[MikeCaldwell]

I also received the same email from the Cemetery on 4/7/2021. Ashes for Eugene, Harriet, and their son Edgar were placed inside the mausoleum on June 15, 1926. 4 more family members were placed there also in the 1950's and last was 1971.

It was suggested that contact with the family could be the only way to confirm if Edgar's ashes were indeed placed in the mausoleum. His great nephew is still living and I have contacted him for more information.

 

[MikeCaldwell]

After reviewing the comments, I think it worthy to explain that I never said Edgar Meyers did NOT die onboard the Titanic. To make that assumption with "sick joke" comments is arrogant and condescending. Apparently no one else had bothered to communicate with the cemetery until after I did last month. I said, and the cemetery confirmed, that their records show ASHES were placed inside his columbarium inside the mausoleum.

I would like to know what proof exists that the ashes are "symbolic". Sounds like an unverifiable assumption. As well known as the Meyers family was in New York I am sure an obituary from the NY Times or similar paper exists, not only for Edgar, but for his parents as well.

FindaGrave goes to great effort to distinguish memorial sites from grave sites. Its called a cenotaph when only a name is given with no remains. That was my original intent for contacting the cemetery and obviously they did NOT confirm it as a memorial. Once again, I have taken the extra step, which clearly no one else felt was important, of contacting a living family member for additional information.

 

[Encyclopedia Titanica]

I'm sorry about the wording a little further up this threat, it could have been better phrased.

The issues about symbolic remains was just put in as one possibility to explain how ashes could exist in a grave for whom physical remains were (as far as we know) never identified.

As you say, as far as the cemetery are concerned there were three interments, one under the name of Edgar Joseph Meyer. This conflicts which what we currently know about him. But if proof emerges that the body was identified and then cremated then that would be quite a find.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I'm sorry about the wording a little further up this threat, it could have been better phrased.

Yes, I agree and I have already explained to the poster that it was a knee-jerk reaction on my part and apologized in a private message.

I'm sorry about the wording a little further up this threat, it could have been better phrased.

The issues about symbolic remains was just put in as one possibility to explain how ashes could exist in a grave for whom physical remains were (as far as we know) never identified.

As you say, as far as the cemetery are concerned there were three interments, one under the name of Edgar Joseph Meyer. This conflicts which what we currently know about him. But if proof emerges that the body was identified and then cremated then that would be quite a find.

But HOW will proof emerge? When Edgar Meyer died in the Titanic sinking, his wife Leila survived and reached New York. Edgar's parents were still alive and well at the time. Given the family's social standing and the fallout of the disaster itself, there would have been quite a bit of publicity about it if Edgar Meyer's remains had been found, brought back and interred in the next few months. Nothing like that happened.

As far as "contacting the family" is concerned, how would any of his contemporary descendants know the truth any more than a third party? Edgar's mother Harriet died in 1922 and her husband had the family Mausoleum built in 1924 before passing on himself in 1925. It was at that time - 12 years after his death - that the ashes were placed in the Mausoleum.

When Edgar Meyer died, he and Leila had a 1 year old daughter. IF his remains had been found a few moths later, would it not have been Leila who had the rightful claim to them? She did not remarry till 1914.

Finally, only 59 bodies that were identified and brought back were claimed by the families for due respectful process. They have been carefully listed and Edgar Meyer is not among them.