Fleet's 'Haze'

[Aaron_2016]

What about Alfred Shiers? He saw the haze behind the ship and on the foredeck. Did the iceberg emit a haze and if tons of ice had fallen on the deck near Shiers would it also emit a haze on the deck around him? Was Lightoller correct when he said - "If we were coming on a large berg there might be a haze, as there frequently is in that position, where warm and cold streams are intermixing. You will very frequently get a little low-lying haze, smoke we call it, lying on the water perhaps a couple of feet."

Also trying to figure out why Boxhall was so clueless about what happened. Was he surrounded by haze but as a navigator he was afraid to admit to it at the Inquiry? He claimed he had no idea they were expecting to see ice that night and had no clue that they had struck an iceberg until he heard Moody say afterwards, and he did not even notice the tons of ice on the deck until sometime afterwards when he saw a man holding a piece of ice and said - "I wondered where he got it from," and he also did not see the iceberg immediately after it passed the bridge and said that Murdoch had to point it out to him. Is it possible that there was a haze which surrounded the icebergs but the consequences of admitting to this was too great for the company to accept so they "detained" Lee in New York and paid off Fleet to say the weather was clear?


.

 

[Jim Currie]

I can't believe what I'm about to say. I pretty much share the same view as Jim Currie about this haze business.

Mila,
What Lord described as a brightening on the horizon was seen when his ship was only 1 mile away. He wrote that he saw that at about 10:15, just 5 to 6 minutes before he stopped his ship. At 11 knots, that puts his ship only about one mile away from the icefield that would become more and more visible as his vessel got closer.
The icefield in front of Titanic, which was reported to be 2 to 3 miles from the wreckage, was not seen until sometime after the sun came up from Carpathia.

Only problem there, Sam is that If Lord saw "a brightening of his horizon, it had nothing to do with the pack ice because his horizon was 7.7 miles away and the near edge of the brash was virtually under his nose at a mile away.

We'll get there.

 

[Mila]

I can't believe what I'm about to say. I pretty much share the same view as Jim Currie about this haze business.

Mila,
What Lord described as a brightening on the horizon was seen when his ship was only 1 mile away. He wrote that he saw that at about 10:15, just 5 to 6 minutes before he stopped his ship. At 11 knots, that puts his ship only about one mile away from the icefield that would become more and more visible as his vessel got closer.
The icefield in front of Titanic, which was reported to be 2 to 3 miles from the wreckage, was not seen until sometime after the sun came up from Carpathia.

Hi Sam,
We have to account for Lord's horizon and for Fleet's horizon. Maybe what Lord observed from his bridge 6 minutes before he stopped could have been seen from the Titanic's crow's nest much earlier? Fleet had no reason to lie about the haze. If he said it impacted the visibility, then, yes I would have doubt his words, but he has never said it did. Besides maybe Lord's vision was worse than the vision of Fleet. Besides maybe because of the ship's position Fleet was able to see more of it on the both sides.

 

[Mila]

What about Alfred Shiers? He saw the haze behind the ship and on the foredeck. Did the iceberg emit a haze and if tons of ice had fallen on the deck near Shiers would it also emit a haze on the deck around him? Was Lightoller correct when he said - "If we were coming on a large berg there might be a haze, as there frequently is in that position, where warm and cold streams are intermixing. You will very frequently get a little low-lying haze, smoke we call it, lying on the water perhaps a couple of feet."

Also trying to figure out why Boxhall was so clueless about what happened. Was he surrounded by haze but as a navigator he was afraid to admit to it at the Inquiry? He claimed he had no idea they were expecting to see ice that night and had no clue that they had struck an iceberg until he heard Moody say afterwards, and he did not even notice the tons of ice on the deck until sometime afterwards when he saw a man holding a piece of ice and said - "I wondered where he got it from," and he also did not see the iceberg immediately after it passed the bridge and said that Murdoch had to point it out to him. Is it possible that there was a haze which surrounded the icebergs but the consequences of admitting to this was too great for the company to accept so they "detained" Lee in New York and paid off Fleet to say the weather was clear?


.

Hi Aaron,
After the collision the iceberg was broken. Maybe the icy dust from the break was taken as a haze?

 

[Jim Currie]

What about Alfred Shiers? He saw the haze behind the ship and on the foredeck. Did the iceberg emit a haze and if tons of ice had fallen on the deck near Shiers would it also emit a haze on the deck around him? Was Lightoller correct when he said - "If we were coming on a large berg there might be a haze, as there frequently is in that position, where warm and cold streams are intermixing. You will very frequently get a little low-lying haze, smoke we call it, lying on the water perhaps a couple of feet."

Also trying to figure out why Boxhall was so clueless about what happened. Was he surrounded by haze but as a navigator he was afraid to admit to it at the Inquiry? He claimed he had no idea they were expecting to see ice that night and had no clue that they had struck an iceberg until he heard Moody say afterwards, and he did not even notice the tons of ice on the deck until sometime afterwards when he saw a man holding a piece of ice and said - "I wondered where he got it from," and he also did not see the iceberg immediately after it passed the bridge and said that Murdoch had to point it out to him. Is it possible that there was a haze which surrounded the icebergs but the consequences of admitting to this was too great for the company to accept so they "detained" Lee in New York and paid off Fleet to say the weather was clear?


.

Hello Aaron.

Alfred Shiers was in his bunk at the time of impact. When he came on deck, he, like Boxhall would have very poor night vision. Besides that, he was looking aft, through the glare of the ship's accommodation lights. These tend to reflect off little particles in the atmosphere and give the impression of a haze. If you are able, and as a test, go outside (if it's not raining) and stand against the wall and look along the wall and through the glare of light from your window at something beyond it and you'll see what I mean.

 

[David G. Brown]

If the conditions aren't right for fog, sea smoke, haze or other weather phenomena, then Fleet's "haze" had to be something else.

What else was out there that is made of a pretty much white, shiny material that might be seen in starlight?

The truth is only one thing could have been Fleet's "haze."

Ice.

-- David G. Brown

 

[Mila]

I completely share your point of view, Dave. I argued that very point with Tim Malten but my protests fell upon deaf ears.

There is a simple experiment anyone with a pair of compasses. a ruler and a protractor can do. It will show the what the 'haze' seen by the lookout really was...star-light reflected off the surface of the long, low ice barrier across the path of Titanic. It will also tell how far away the ice barrier was when the lookouts first saw the 'haze', the time they saw it and
how far away the ship was from disaster.

"17250. After the first part of the watch what was the change if any? A: - A sort of slight haze.
17256. Was it only ahead, did you notice? A: Well, it was only about 2 points on each side.
Sir Robert Finlay: Mr. Wilding has just verified it again, and finds it was 55 feet above the waterline.
The Attorney-General: I think the crow's-nest is about 40 feet above the deck.

Using the foregoing evidence, try the following.

At the center of a clean A4 sheet of paper (or similar), make a mark to represent Titanic. From the mark, draw a vertical line to the top of the page to represent the planned course of the ship.
With the protractor, draw two lines 22.5 degrees on each side of the planned course ( 2 points on each side of right ahead)
Next, with the compasses set to exactly exactly 11.5 units, and the point located at Titanic, inscribe an arc cutting the lines representing right ahead and two points on each bow. This represents the arc of the horizon of the two lookouts at a height of a hundred feet above the sea.
Join the points where two points on either side lines cut the arc of the horizon . This represents the ice barrier.
From thje evidence of Captain Rostron of Carpathia, we know that the iceberg was about 3 miles east of the barrier. You can plot that too. The finished article should look better than the following:
View attachment 2074
If the above is true and Titanic was making 22.5 knots before she hit the iceberg, then the lookouts saw the 'haze' 28 minutes before impact with the iceberg and the ship hit the ice 20 minutes after they first saw the haze.

Hi Jim,

Could you please explain your chart to me. I am not very good with such charts. Why Fleet said he only saw the haze on two points on each side. Wasn't this ice field much longer?
Thank you.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

What else was out there that is made of a pretty much white, shiny material that might be seen in starlight?

Where did Fleet ever say what he saw was white? Real haze produces an obscuration of whatever lies beyond. You see the effect of haze. You cannot actually see haze.

 

[David G. Brown]

Lookouts knew the tricks of "night vision" long before Titanic was laid down. Fleet could have discerned light (i.e. "white") or dark (i.e. "black") under the circumstances because only his monochrome sensors would have been sensitive enough to see anything. The color receptors in his eyes would have been virtually useless. Thus, Fleet's world was either light or dark, but not colorful.

Real meteorological haze does not just obscure what lies beyond. It has definite color properties. For instance, on the Great Lakes the summer haze gives a definite green cast visible in photographs. The greenish color of the water and trees is reflected by the moisture droplets which comprise true haze. In winter, this color disappears as haze is less common on the Great Lakes. But, even if the "haze" reported by Fleet had been purple or orange, the light was too dim for his color receptors to have been of service. Whatever he saw would have been in shades of either dark or light.

-- David G. Brown

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Whatever he saw would have been in shades of either dark or light.

Assuming he really saw anything at all.

 

[David G. Brown]

Sam's comment (above) must be kept in mind at all times. The "haze" may have been something -- or it may not have existed. Only Fleet could tell us...if he only could.

-- David G. Brown

 

[Jim Currie]

Hi Jim,

Could you please explain your chart to me. I am not very good with such charts. Why Fleet said he only saw the haze on two points on each side. Wasn't this ice field much longer?
Thank you.

Hello Mila, sorry or the delay.

I remind you that because the earth's surface is curved, we cannot see what is beyond our horizon. Additionally, our horizon is a circle with us at the center.
The lookouts were no different so their horizon was a curve in front of them. because of this, and if they were seeing the ice barrier, only that part of it within the curve of their horizon would be seen by them. Therefore, in my sketch, I illustrated a straight line.

Hope that explains things.

 

[Mila]

Do we have any references on the weather conditions on the Titanic's wreck site 48 and 24 hours before the collision?

 

[Jim Currie]

I remind you of what Irish Weather on Line stated:

An anticyclone originated over the Canadian Arctic where it developed quite rapidly between the April 8t -10th before moving southeastwards towards the northeast coast of the United States over subsequent days, bringing with it an unusually cold bank of air throughout the region.

This exceptionally cold air mass eventually spilled into the western Atlantic, on reaching the Titanic’s location later on April 14, was associated with clearing skies, sharp drop in temperature and also a rapid decrease in wind"

The weather charts compiled by Met Offices in 1912, were historic. They were the result of reports from "auxiliary weather observer ships". These were ships on regular Atlantic crossings which completed a special weather log of the voyage and submitted them to the Met office at the end of the
voyage. One such vessel recorded the following along the 40th parallel. The baro. was 29.99 on the 12th., 30.09 on the 13 and by the 14, it was 30.21. All of which point to the approach of a High from the north east

Wind blows around the centers of Low and High pressure.. anti-clockwise around the former and clockwise around the latter. It also blows at right angles to a Cold Front. "Someone" sent me this plot upon which I have imposed the symbols for a Cold Front and the main direction of the wind behind it. You can see what brought the pack ice from the coastal regions.

 

[Mila]

I remind you of what Irish Weather on Line stated:

An anticyclone originated over the Canadian Arctic where it developed quite rapidly between the April 8t -10th before moving southeastwards towards the northeast coast of the United States over subsequent days, bringing with it an unusually cold bank of air throughout the region.

This exceptionally cold air mass eventually spilled into the western Atlantic, on reaching the Titanic’s location later on April 14, was associated with clearing skies, sharp drop in temperature and also a rapid decrease in wind"

The weather charts compiled by Met Offices in 1912, were historic. They were the result of reports from "auxiliary weather observer ships". These were ships on regular Atlantic crossings which completed a special weather log of the voyage and submitted them to the Met office at the end of the
voyage. One such vessel recorded the following along the 40th parallel. The baro. was 29.99 on the 12th., 30.09 on the 13 and by the 14, it was 30.21. All of which point to the approach of a High from the north east

Wind blows around the centers of Low and High pressure.. anti-clockwise around the former and clockwise around the latter. It also blows at right angles to a Cold Front. "Someone" sent me this plot upon which I have imposed the symbols for a Cold Front and the main direction of the wind behind it. You can see what brought the pack ice from the coastal regions.

Thank you, Jim,

I saw the same plot too
but what I really would like to know is what was the speed of that wind.
Although atop of this image it says "Wind (m/s)", but where is the info itself, I mean how many meters per second the wind blew?
Do you know that too? What about precipitation?Was there any on April 13 and the morning of April 14?
Besides they authors say:

Prior to April 14, the upper layer temperatures are significantly warmer than the very near-surface temperatures. This is due to the fact that the warm Gulf air from the south-west was blowing over this location.

How westerly wind could have blown up the warm air over the wreck's site.