Here's a one-of-a-kind Titanic picture you've not seen before.

[Mark D]

Hello!

I'm a longtime lurker, but haven't actually created an account until today. I did so because the other day I finally got a few items from my old scrapbook scanned into digital format, and I thought I'd share one of my prized possessions with you all in gratitude for all the extremely interesting information I've read here over the years.

The dedication to me is indeed from Mr. Walter Lord. Back in the 1980s when I was in grade school, my class was given an assignment to write a letter to an author of a book we had read. I had just read A Night to Remember the previous summer, so I decided to write Mr. Lord. I received a very nice letter in response, as he was delighted to hear from a young person regarding his book. He included in his reply the above picture, which he stated he believed had never been published in a book or newspaper anywhere. So as far as I'm aware, it's one-of-a-kind.

And for some bonus WSL-related items from my scrapbook:

I was in Greenich, UK on my senior class trip and my group stopped in a quaint little antique shop. I was rifling through some photo albums, and the above photograph dropped out. I immediately took it to the clerk and asked how much for just the picture, as I didn't want the whole album. He looked surprised and said something to the effect that it was the Titanic and probably a rare picture, so he wasn't sure if he should part with it. I told him it wasn't the Titanic, it was definitely the Olympic. I explained the difference in the promenade deck windows on the ships, as well as pointed out that it appeared to be either the Mauretania or Lusitania in the background, and they Titanic was not (to my knowledge) ever docked in Southampton with either of those vessels. In hindsight I could have been wrong about that (anyone know?), but I'm positive this is the Olympic. He let me have it for 50p.

My dad is a stamp collector, and I believe I picked up the above postcard at one of the shows to which he dragged my brother and I. I know the painting of the Arabic is common, but I thought it was neat because the message on the back shows it is from 1909, predating the Titanic disaster. Nothing remarkable, but a little bit of White Star history nonetheless.

Thanks for allowing me to share these!

 

[Lena1985]

Great photos! Im always looking to find some sort of photo or memorabilia ive never seen before.

 

[Christophe Puttemans]

I have seen this picture before, in a book by Edward P. De Groot called "75 Jaar Titanic".

The image description says: "The Titanic at Cowes. The image is taken from a point just out of the river Solent."

 

[Augusto Félix Solari]

One question, what is that other four funneled ship on the right? A battleship?

 

[Rusty_S]

Considering the forward rake at the water line of the bow and the four stacks situated ahead of amidship these are the only ships below that could possibly be.

First off would be a US Cruiser the Chester class. Possible but highly unlikely in English waters. Not to mention there's no forward turret fore of the bridge tower.

Chester-class cruiser - Wikipedia

Next ship it could be would be a UK Cressy class cruiser in service 1901-20.

Cressy-class cruiser - Wikipedia

Next ship it could be would be a UK Warrior class cruiser in service 1907-19

Warrior-class cruiser - Wikipedia

Final ship it could be would be a UK Drake class cruiser in service 1902-20

Drake-class cruiser - Wikipedia

 

[Harland Duzen]

One question, what is that other four funneled ship on the right? A battleship?

Perhaps this clearer picture might help us (Taken from Paul Lee Titanic Newspaper photos website). It looks like there's a second 2-funneled Battleship to the left.

Link to Photo: http://www.paullee.com/titanic/NMM_Pics/

 

[Harland Duzen]

Here's some enhanced versions from the Paul Lee photo above that might help us further.

Note that the ''Beken of Cowes'' photographer boat can be seen right of the 2-funneled Battleship.

 

[Rusty_S]

Thing that keeps throwing me off on the cruiser is look how tall the vent tubes are. They are quite nearly half the height of the stacks. The only English cruiser built like that with vent tubes visible on deck were short vents that had hardly any neck to them. I know its not a US cruiser cause ours didn't have a turret forward of the bridge assembly let alone the bird bath style mast platforms either.

The Drake class had the proper bird bath style platforms but has no visible vents amidship from the few photos I have found. For vents the Cressy is the closest class to match but lacks the birdbath style platforms.

On the two stack ship let me get my warship guide out and see if I can match something up.

~Update~

Ok on the two stack ship its hard to tell if there really is two stacks or if its one stack with a sheen giving the illusion of two stacks. But I found a battleship how ever that looks very similar to this ship and it has two stacks

The Royal Sovereign class battleship is what I would pin her as. These ships were built 1892 to 1894 and saw service with the Mediterranean fleet until 1902 then after 1902 these ships served in the English home waters. By 1914 only one ship was still in service and that was HMS Revenge.

HMS Royal Sovereign
Royal Sovereign-class battleship - Wikipedia

HMS Hood

HMS Empress of India

 

[Harland Duzen]

Thing that keeps throwing me off on the cruiser is look how tall the vent tubes are. They are quite nearly half the height of the stacks. The only English cruiser built like that with vent tubes visible on deck were short vents that had hardly any neck to them. I know its not a US cruiser cause ours didn't have a turret forward of the bridge assembly let alone the bird bath style mast platforms either.

The Drake class had the proper bird bath style platforms but has no visible vents amidship from the few photos I have found. For vents the Cressy is the closest class to match but lacks the birdbath style platforms.

On the two stack ship let me get my warship guide out and see if I can match something up.

The other problem with this photo is that the Battleship's masts (The 4 funnelled one) has what appears to be 2 crow's nests (I don't know what they are) and are '' I '' while the rest above have '' t '' shaped masts.

 

[Rusty_S]

I cant edit my previous post anymore but heres some more information I came across.

HMS Royal Soverign : taken out of service 1909, so this ship is not in the photo above.

HMS Hood : Hood served most of her active career in the Mediterranean Sea, where her low freeboard was less of a disadvantage. The ship was placed in reserve in 1907 and later became the receiving ship at Queenstown, Ireland. Hood was used in the development of anti-torpedo bulges in 1911–13 and was scuttled in late 1914 to act as a blockship across the southern entrance of Portland Harbour.

HMS Empress of India : Empress of India was commissioned in 1893 and served as the flagship of the second-in-command of the Channel Fleet for two years. She was transferred to the Mediterranean Fleet in 1897. She returned home in 1901 and was briefly assigned as a coast guard ship in Ireland before she became the second flagship of the Home Fleet. The ship was reduced to reserve in 1905 and accidentally collided with the submarine HMS A10 the following year. Empress of India was taken out of service in early 1912 and accidentally struck a German sailing ship while under tow. She was sunk as a target ship in 1913.

HMS Ramilles : Ramilles served in the Mediterranean Fleet (1893–1903), Reserve Fleet (1903–1907), and Home Fleet (1907–1911), and was scrapped in 1913. This ship is also not shown in picture above.

HMS Repulse : Repulse Assigned to the Channel Fleet, where she often served as a flagship, after commissioning in 1894, the ship participated in a series of annual manoeuvres, and the Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee Fleet Review during the rest of the decade. Repulse was transferred to the Mediterranean Fleet in 1902 and remained there until December 1903, when she returned home for an extensive refit. After its completion in 1905, Repulse was assigned to the Reserve Fleet until she was sold for scrap in 1911. Not this ship either.

HMS Resolution : Resolution served in the Channel Fleet (1893–1901), then in various subsidiary and commissioned reserve duties until decommissioned in 1911 and scrapped in 1914. Not this ship either.

HMS Revenge : Revenge was placed in reserve upon her return home in 1900 and was then briefly assigned as a coast guard ship before she joined the Home Fleet in 1902. The ship became a gunnery training ship in 1906 until she was paid off in 1913. The ship was recommissioned the following year, after the start of World War I, to bombard the coast of Flanders as part of the Dover Patrol, during which she was hit four times, but was not seriously damaged. She had anti-torpedo bulges fitted in early 1915, the first ship to be fitted with them operationally.[23] The ship was renamed Redoubtable later that year and was refitted as an accommodation ship at the end of the year. The last surviving member of her class, the ship was sold for scrap in November 1919.

HMS Royal Oak : Royal Oak served in the Mediterranean Fleet (1897–1902), Home Fleet (1903–05), Reserve Fleet (1905–07), and the new Home Fleet (1907–11), before decommissioning in 1912 and being scrapped in 1914. Not this ship either.

So out of the ships of the Royal Soverign class the only ships that one in the picture could possibly be is the HMS Hood which I do not believe this ship is as the Hood was a low freeboard ship. The Empress of India it could be but doubtful as she was taken out of service in early 1912. The only other ship that this could be is the HMS Revenge which I want to say is the ship in the photo as she was a training ship in 1906 through 1913.

 

[Rusty_S]

The other problem with this photo is that the Battleship's masts (The 4 funnelled one) has what appears to be 2 crow's nests (I don't know what they are) and are '' I '' while the rest above have '' t '' shaped masts.

That's the thing, without doing extensive research I cant say if these ships had plain vertical masts at one time in their life or not. That's the thing with military ships most military ships evolve over their life time and have changes made. The photos I found on Wikipedia as well as in my Warship directory they both show these ships as having a T mast. Thing is though I highly doubt foreign nation cruisers and battleships would be operating in English waters at this time. I also highly doubt its a battleship as well but I will check my battleship section out for four stack versions but the way how the bow has a reverse rake that is a look ive seen more on cruisers when it comes to four stacks

I looked at my cruiser section again, all cruisers up to 1914 completion has a T mast, I wonder if the photo just did not catch the cross mast due to distance. I also looked at battleships all the way back to 1880 completion date and not one has four stacks. I also looked at battle cruisers and UK did not build any battle cruisers till considerably after 1912.

The ships I posted above are the only ones it could possibly be unless its not a UK ship but then the only ship that is not a UK ship that comes to mind it could be is a Chester class cruiser but it doesn't have a forward turret like shown in the image above.

 

[Harland Duzen]

According to Wikipedia, HMS Revenge was moored near Portsmouth in Early 1912 and crashed into another ship called Orion on the 7th January 1912. She could have been moored there.

 

[Harland Duzen]

That's the thing, without doing extensive research I cant say if these ships had plain vertical masts at one time in their life or not. That's the thing with military ships most military ships evolve over their life time and have changes made. The photos I found on Wikipedia as well as in my Warship directory they both show these ships as having a T mast. Thing is though I highly doubt foreign nation cruisers and battleships would be operating in English waters at this time. I also highly doubt its a battleship as well but I will check my battleship section out for four stack versions but the way how the bow has a reverse rake that is a look ive seen more on cruisers when it comes to four stacks

I looked at my cruiser section again, all cruisers up to 1914 completion has a T mast, I wonder if the photo just did not catch the cross mast due to distance. I also looked at battleships all the way back to 1880 completion date and not one has four stacks. I also looked at battle cruisers and UK did not build any battle cruisers till considerably after 1912.

The ships I posted above are the only ones it could possibly be unless its not a UK ship but then the only ship that is not a UK ship that comes to mind it could be is a Chester class cruiser but it doesn't have a forward turret like shown in the image above.

That was fast!

Your research does show HMS Revenge as the most likely ship in the photo above and congratulations on the detail.

 

[Rusty_S]

lol Yep that's the beauty of having a hard copy book of all warships of the world from 1860 to present day. Present day for this book how ever is 2002 but it works great in identifying ships in a photo to a class of ships to further the research to pin point down possible hits for specific ships like above.

In reality it could be the HMS Royal Oak as well but I don't think so because she was decommissioned in 1912 and if the UK like the US decommission ships in a similar fashion then that ship would have been moored for at least 6 months to a year before decommissioning. She wouldn't be seen out in open waters which has me thinking HMS Revenge mainly because she was a training ship between 1906 and 1913, a training ship would always have new crew on board for training and will be operating in open waters.

Yep sure wasn't the HMS Royal Oak, did some reading on her she was towed to a mooring in Motherbank in November 1911 and stayed there till she was sold January 14, 1914.

 

[Harland Duzen]

Out of interest is the HMS Black Prince an option? Also can I use this some of this info for a book I writing? I thank you in the ''acknowledgement'' section.