Myths of Titanic

[Arun Vajpey]

They were seen moving to the starboard boat deck from the First Class Entrance, by survivors at 2:03 a.m. Approximately a group of 30 people were standing around the band.

That's interesting. By then Collapsible C had been already lowered about 5 minutes earlier and so the band members, like many others, were probably hoping for places in Collapsible A.

Since they were playing on the port side forward most of the time, the band members would have realized that Wilde and Lightoller would never have allowed any of them - all men - to board any lifeboat. They might have heard too late that they stood better chances on the starboard side.

 

[Seumas]

I agree that is probably where the "Smith had a breakdown" idea started.

Did Lightoller not also say that steam was still being let off from the boilers during this conversation, making it hard for all hands (not just Smith and Lightoller) to hear one another ?

Writing years after the event, Lightoller wrote that Smith rarely rose his voice and was not the kind to stride around roaring out orders and chastising people. A gentle word in your ear was more Smith's "style" if we want to call it that of running things.

 

[Thomas Krom]

They were seen moving to the starboard boat deck from the First Class Entrance, by survivors at 2:03 a.m. Approximately a group of 30 people were standing around the band.

Most accounts I've seen, regarding the movements of the band, do point at the port side however. I cannot recall ever having bumping into that account that they were on the starboard side.

Captain Smith, along with Thomas Andrews were seen jumping from the port side, as water began to flood the area.

The account of engineer's mess steward Cecil William Fitzpatrick has been taken out of context quite a lot. Fitzpatrick stated that he was working on collapsible Engelhardt lifeboat A, saw both Thomas Andrews Jr and captain Smith pass him by and stated when he looked again they were gone. He added: "I suppose they went overboard."

First class saloon steward Edward Brown saw captain Smith on the starboard side just before the boat deck made the plunge forward, and went back to the bridge alone right after Brown sigted him. Based on the many accounts of him in the water by occupants of collapsible Engelhardt lifeboat B I would say he jumped overboard there.

 

[Brody Tarrant]

As for the band. Did they decide them self to play, or was it an order from Smith?

I have for the most part I have always thought that the band had dicided to play on there own initiative.

 

[Steven Christian]

Honestly, I am not all that impressed with this exhibition. I do not believe either that Captain Smith had a mental breakdown or was in a daze; in fact there is evidence which disproves it. As well, contrary to what Claes states and what the movie shows regarding Smith going back into the wheelhouse to die, the evidence says otherwise. Captain Smith, along with Thomas Andrews were seen jumping from the port side, as water began to flood the area at 2:12 a.m. Just a mere three minutes before Titanic took the slight but definite plunge forward. Captain Smith said to Andrews: "We cannot stay any longer; she is going!"

Ok thanks. I was wondering how it compared to the exhibits I saw in Vegas. Those I really liked. Was wondering if the display was different things than RMST INC. showed. Cheers.

 

[Jason D. Tiller]

Ok thanks. I was wondering how it compared to the exhibits I saw in Vegas. Those I really liked. Was wondering if the display was different things than RMST INC. showed. Cheers.

Yes it is very different from RMST. From the looks of it, it appears that the artifacts have been donated by various people.

As for the one in Las Vegas, I've heard it is excellent. I hope to visit it one day.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I agree that is probably where the "Smith had a breakdown" idea started.

Did Lightoller not also say that steam was still being let off from the boilers during this conversation, making it hard for all hands (not just Smith and Lightoller) to hear one another ?

I do believe that like rest of his statements on both sides of the Atlantic, Lightoller carefully rehearsed what he was going to say and how he was going to say it regarding this matter.

Sorry to quote myself, but I wanted to explain my opinion about Lightoller's statements - particularly in relation to Captain Smith - which in turn led to some people believing that he was "dazed" or "having a breakdown" etc during the sinking.

I am not suggesting that Lightoller 's intention was to deliberately discredit his Captain; I don't believe that. But as with most of the statements the Second officer made during both Inquiries, he wanted to be seen in a "heroic" light himself. After all, he was the senior-most surviving officer and if anyone felt inclined to justify his own position more than the other male survivors, it would have been Lightoller. IMO that was the reason he made his statements in the manner that he did but in doing so unintentionally sowed the seeds that cast doubts about Captain Smith's mental state with some people over time.

 

[Steven Christian]

Yes it is very different from RMST. From the looks of it, it appears that the artifacts have been donated by various people.

As for the one in Las Vegas, I've heard it is excellent. I hope to visit it one day.

I haven't been to the new one yet. Probably close to the other 2 they had in Vegas as it is the same outfit. Both of those were really good IMHO. But for anyone wanting to go I would awhile until the covid mess is over. Vegas...the last place I would suspect went full blown crazy with the bug. I understand that almost all if not all of the really good buffets are closed. That will change soon I'm sure. If not sooner then after November. Cheers.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I understand that almost all if not all of the really good buffets are closed

You can say that again. Vegas buffets are a gourmet's dream and a dietician's nightmare. I once went to one at the Rio Suites Hotel that made me wish that I had starved for 3 days and just run a charity half-marathon

 

[Steven Christian]

You can say that again. Vegas buffets are a gourmet's dream and a dietician's nightmare. I once went to one at the Rio Suites Hotel that made me wish that I had starved for 3 days and just run a charity half-marathon

The Rio is where the last exhibit was I went too. It was very good. Better than the one at Tropicanna, although that one was good also. The buffet at the Rio was excellent as you said. It's the one that the locals would go to. Myself included. Cheers.

 

[Jim Currie]

Alexander's Ragtime Band was written by Irving Berlin in 1911 and was probably a favorite. Boxhall said the band played it,
A song or hymn lasts between 4 and 7 minutes...say one every 8 minutes, which is about 7 tunes an hour.
"Soon after the men had left the starboard side, I saw a bandsman—the 'cellist—come round the vestibule corner from the staircase entrance and run down the now deserted starboard deck, his 'cello trailing behind him, the spike dragging along the floor. This must have been about 12.40 A.M. I suppose the band must have begun to play soon after this and gone on until after 2 A.M. Many brave things were done that night, but none more brave than by those few men playing minute after minute as the ship settled quietly lower and lower in the sea and the sea rose higher and higher to where they stood; the music they played serving alike as their own immortal requiem and their right to be recorded on the rolls of undying fame."
Lawrence Beesley.
That's about 10 tunes. Music suits moods "Alexander's Ragtime Band" is a happy upbeat 'everything is fine' sort of tune. "Nearer My God to Thee" says it all.
Beesely also made a point of stating only women were allowed on the starboard aft boats, but the men there were told to board boats on the port side.

Captain Smith did what any competent Captain would have done - let his Officers get on with the work without them having to leave what they were doing every now and then, to come to him for instructions.
However, he kept an eye on everything and was the ultimate decision-maker at key times in the procedures. To do keep pace with proceedings, he would have needed to walk through the bridge - back and forward - from side to side of his boat deck.
Preparing, filling, and lowering the boats were three actions that only the Commander could order. All subordinates including Lightoller, needed specific instructions regarding these - no matter the impatience of the idividual. Lightoller simply did his duty.

 

[Jason D. Tiller]

G'day Thomas,

Most accounts I've seen, regarding the movements of the band, do point at the port side however. I cannot recall ever having bumping into that account that they were on the starboard side.

Yes you're right, as far as those accounts go. But my information comes from OASOG and this is the latest. Unfortunately I do not have a copy at the moment so I can't check the actual source, but I trust it. The authors are my friends and are well regarded in the community, as I'm sure you know.

The account of engineer's mess steward Cecil William Fitzpatrick has been taken out of context quite a lot. Fitzpatrick stated that he was working on collapsible Engelhardt lifeboat A, saw both Thomas Andrews Jr and captain Smith pass him by and stated when he looked again they were gone. He added: "I suppose they went overboard."

First class saloon steward Edward Brown saw captain Smith on the starboard side just before the boat deck made the plunge forward, and went back to the bridge alone right after Brown sigted him. Based on the many accounts of him in the water by occupants of collapsible Engelhardt lifeboat B I would say he jumped overboard there.

There appears to be quite a bit of conflicting information, regarding Captain Smith's final moments, not to mention his actions leading up to that. Second class passenger William J. Mellors who was in collapsible B stated that he witnessed Smith jumping from the bridge. However it is possible that he mistook Smith for Lightoller who did exactly that and swam for the crow's nest, before he realized he should stay away from the sinking vessel. While other survivors say they saw Smith enter the wheelhouse and drown, when it was engulfed.

The New York Herald in its April 19th edition quoted Daniels as saying "I saw Captain Smith on the bridge. My eyes seemingly clung to him. The deck from which I had leapt was immersed. The water had risen slowly, and was now to the floor of the bridge. Then it was to Captain Smith's waist. I saw him no more. He died a hero."

 

[Thomas Krom]

Hello Jason,

I hope you are doing right.

Yes you're right, as far as those accounts go. But my information comes from OASOG and this is the latest. Unfortunately I do not have a copy at the moment so I can't check the actual source, but I trust it. The authors are my friends and are well regarded in the community, as I'm sure you know.

From what I've heard from some of my pals the writers take a lot information on the band (both the quintet and the restaurant trio) from the talented George Behe. The writers of "On A Sea Of Glass" stated, if my memory serves right, that is, that the placement of the band on the starboard side comes from Mr. Behe's book on the band called: "Those brave fellows"

I asked a few of my pals who own to book to search for the statement cover to cover and they've been unable to find anything on that. Mr. Behe however states firmly that the band was on the port side, and not the starboard side as claimed. From what I've heard it's the ultimate source on the band during the Titanic her maiden, and sadly last fateful, voyage.

I have respect for the writers and wouldn't even think of insulting them. I only made that statement based on what I stated above.

There appears to be quite a bit of conflicting information, regarding Captain Smith's final moments, not to mention his actions leading up to that.

I would agree that there's conflicting evidence on his final movements, and with that his untimely death on that fateful night. Personally I believe most evidence points that he was in the water after the Titanic sank. However, all that I stated had to do with that Cecil William Fitzpatrick his account is interpreted wrongly with claiming that Thomas Andrews Jr jumped overboard from the port side bridge wing.

 

[Jason D. Tiller]

Hi Thomas,

I'm doing well, thanks.

I asked a few of my pals who own to book to search for the statement cover to cover and they've been unable to find anything on that. Mr. Behe however states firmly that the band was on the port side, and not the starboard side as claimed. From what I've heard it's the ultimate source on the band during the Titanic her maiden, and sadly last fateful, voyage.

Thanks for that, I'll have to research it more. George is one of the best historians on the Titanic and her story.

I have respect for the writers and wouldn't even think of insulting them. I only made that statement based on what I stated above.

I realize that. I was simply explaining my position.

 

[Jim Currie]

You do not need to consult books to find out where the band was, you can find that from the evidence and the ship's plans on this site.
I quote from the evidence given by First Class Steward Edward Brown.

"10590. Where would the band be gathered; where would they play, do you know?
- Right on the forward companion on the very top - on the boat deck forward companion."

That makes sense. The band located themselves midship... between Boats 8 and 9, at the top of the companionway (staircase), leading down to A deck and kept the boat deck clear for passengers. All companionways led upward at that time