Mark Chirnside
Member
It might be of interest to note, referring to Olympic’s B-deck:
Olympics's Speed
- Thread starter George Behe
- Start date
Teri Lynn Milch
Member
Mark,
Quite a splendid piece of information, my friend! It was good reading!
Teri
Quite a splendid piece of information, my friend! It was good reading!
Teri
Mark Chirnside
Member
White Star's archive has vanished, but he seems to have taken an active role, even personally requesting the window drawings. Note it does not say 'White Sar' - it says 'Ismay' himself.
Teri Lynn Milch
Member
Mark,
I did take note that Ismay himself made the request with regards to Olympic's B-Deck. It is evident now that Ismay played an active role in the building of Olympic, but I rather suspect his attention to building matters of Titanic waned just a bit, but not completely. It would have been foolhardy for him not to have taken an active role in the building of what was to become the greatest ocean liners of all time. I never claimed Ismay was totally lacking in the building of the Olympic Class ships, I only meant to point out that he should have played a more active role in the more technical matters of the construction of the ships, such as bulkheads and such.
And so you have confirmed what Parks said earlier, that part of White Star's records have been lost to time. That is truly a shame, for I would have taken great pleasure in reading what was recorded in history, that portion of course which has been lost to time.
Now here's an interesting question that should be put to Parks: What portion of White Star's history is he thinking of that might be lost? He was obviously looking for something and did not find it. I wonder what it was he was looking for...
Sincerely Yours,
Teri
I did take note that Ismay himself made the request with regards to Olympic's B-Deck. It is evident now that Ismay played an active role in the building of Olympic, but I rather suspect his attention to building matters of Titanic waned just a bit, but not completely. It would have been foolhardy for him not to have taken an active role in the building of what was to become the greatest ocean liners of all time. I never claimed Ismay was totally lacking in the building of the Olympic Class ships, I only meant to point out that he should have played a more active role in the more technical matters of the construction of the ships, such as bulkheads and such.
And so you have confirmed what Parks said earlier, that part of White Star's records have been lost to time. That is truly a shame, for I would have taken great pleasure in reading what was recorded in history, that portion of course which has been lost to time.
Now here's an interesting question that should be put to Parks: What portion of White Star's history is he thinking of that might be lost? He was obviously looking for something and did not find it. I wonder what it was he was looking for...
Sincerely Yours,
Teri
Dave Hudson
Member
Sorry to post so late, but I thought that this may be of some interest. As I mentioned on another post, I recently bought a passenger list from the Olympic. It is from a westbound crossing that left on July 29, 1914. With it came a newspaper clipping from the New York Times describing the crossing. Apparently, there was a fear of German cruisers in the area. The Olympic arrived "after breaking even the record she made when she ran out to aid in bringing back survivors of the Titanic." (how could they resist the opportunity to sensationalize?)
"Since 11 A. M. yesterday the steamship maintained an average speed of 25.1 knots an hour. Her average speed for the entire trip was 21.06 knots. The total time was five days 12 hours and 57 minutes."
David
"Since 11 A. M. yesterday the steamship maintained an average speed of 25.1 knots an hour. Her average speed for the entire trip was 21.06 knots. The total time was five days 12 hours and 57 minutes."
David
Mark Chirnside
Member
David,
That's really interesting. 21.06 knots is actually the slowest westbound average for Olympic that I know of, but the 25.1 knots is intriging. Was that figure for the end of the crossing, or near the end? I guess with low stores, and the stream 0.5 knot in her favour at that point helped a lot. It confirms she didn't exceed 25.1 knots probably to Titanic. It's coincidence as well, as I've a NYTimes cutting on order for about that date - though I am not sure of the same crossing.
Best regards,
Mark.
That's really interesting. 21.06 knots is actually the slowest westbound average for Olympic that I know of, but the 25.1 knots is intriging. Was that figure for the end of the crossing, or near the end? I guess with low stores, and the stream 0.5 knot in her favour at that point helped a lot. It confirms she didn't exceed 25.1 knots probably to Titanic. It's coincidence as well, as I've a NYTimes cutting on order for about that date - though I am not sure of the same crossing.
Best regards,
Mark.
George Behe
Member
Hi, David and Mark!
Yes, that 25 knot figure is definitely interesting!
To be honest, I'd been kind of uncertain about the reliability of an Olympic passenger's claim that Olympic had achieved 25 knots during her dash toward the Titanic, Now, though, it looks like 25 knots was definitely within Olympic's capability.
Mark, if Titanic had begun steaming at 25 knots at (say) 9 a.m. on Monday morning (during her speed trials), what time might she have been expected to arrive in New York?
All my best,
George
Yes, that 25 knot figure is definitely interesting!
To be honest, I'd been kind of uncertain about the reliability of an Olympic passenger's claim that Olympic had achieved 25 knots during her dash toward the Titanic, Now, though, it looks like 25 knots was definitely within Olympic's capability.
Mark, if Titanic had begun steaming at 25 knots at (say) 9 a.m. on Monday morning (during her speed trials), what time might she have been expected to arrive in New York?
All my best,
George
Mark Chirnside
Member
David, George,
212 miles would have been covered during the night assuming an average of 22.75 knots;
leaving 868 miles remaining by 9 a.m. Monday.
So I guess a 25-knot dash could do that time in 34.72 hours, making her arrive about 7 p.m. Tues. ship's time = 6.10 p.m. Tuesday New York Time.
Best regards,
Mark.
212 miles would have been covered during the night assuming an average of 22.75 knots;
leaving 868 miles remaining by 9 a.m. Monday.
So I guess a 25-knot dash could do that time in 34.72 hours, making her arrive about 7 p.m. Tues. ship's time = 6.10 p.m. Tuesday New York Time.
Best regards,
Mark.
George Behe
Member
Mark wrote:
> So I guess a 25-knot dash could >do that time in 34.72 hours, making her
> arrive about 7 p.m. Tues. >ship's time = 6.10 p.m. Tuesday New York Time.
Hi, Mark!
Asssuming a time difference of roughly 1 hr 50 min, wouldn't the NY Time have been 5:10 p.m. instead of 6:10 p.m. (or did you take the ensuing days' time adjustments into account?)
All my best,
George
> So I guess a 25-knot dash could >do that time in 34.72 hours, making her
> arrive about 7 p.m. Tues. >ship's time = 6.10 p.m. Tuesday New York Time.
Hi, Mark!
Asssuming a time difference of roughly 1 hr 50 min, wouldn't the NY Time have been 5:10 p.m. instead of 6:10 p.m. (or did you take the ensuing days' time adjustments into account?)
All my best,
George
Mark Chirnside
Member
Sorry for the confusion. 6.10 is what would have been the ship's time (at the collision) minus 1hr 50 min, which would gradually have been altered throughout the voyage due to clock changes. = hang on, that's wrong. It should be 5.10 as you pointed out.
Best regards,
Mark.
Best regards,
Mark.
Mark Chirnside
Member
A little off the thread's subject now of speed, which has thankfully gone back to the original topic, but I thought from the earlier discussion I’d post more info. about ships and their ageing. I know Olympic has been criticized (IMHO unduly), but there are several other good examples of ships.
Mauretania lost a small piece of eighteen inch plating from her after propeller boss, which had an over-fatigued appearance, during the 1920s as far as I can ascertain.
Homeric’s shell plating at her stern became over-fatigued and underwent considerably repairs during the 1920s, but by 1930-32, after barely eight or ten years of service, Homeric’s plating in this area just fell off, which the Board of Trade called ‘unprecedented and alarming.’
Leviathan and Majestic both had ‘severe extensive structural breakdown’ because of their split funnel uptakes, having huge cracks, slack rivets, troublesome expansion joints. Majestic’s B-deck needed strengthening in 1924 to prevent that, and Leviathan — which didn’t have Majestic’s repairs — cracked 20-feet down her side in a storm in 1929. The Board of Trade only allowed her to return to America after temporary repairs, and Leviathan sailed on a better weather course at a lower speed.
Berengaria’s later surveys include information about thousands of loose rivets, while there is also some mention of hull fractures (more minor in her case) and trouble maintaining some of the ship in the boiler rooms, as the boilers’ layout seems to have prevented easy access. Extensive repairs were necessary to her oil bunkers, which had not originally been designed for oil but coal, while there are other reports of damage in hostile weather.
Aquitania and another ship, called something like ‘Andania’ seem to have had trouble with expansion joints, but that’s only very vague and I’ve little info. about that. I know there is a special rudder survey for Aquitania in 1927, which might indicate that that was troublesome.
Generally with many large ships, trouble was experienced with the fore and after peaks leaking.
Mauretania lost a small piece of eighteen inch plating from her after propeller boss, which had an over-fatigued appearance, during the 1920s as far as I can ascertain.
Homeric’s shell plating at her stern became over-fatigued and underwent considerably repairs during the 1920s, but by 1930-32, after barely eight or ten years of service, Homeric’s plating in this area just fell off, which the Board of Trade called ‘unprecedented and alarming.’
Leviathan and Majestic both had ‘severe extensive structural breakdown’ because of their split funnel uptakes, having huge cracks, slack rivets, troublesome expansion joints. Majestic’s B-deck needed strengthening in 1924 to prevent that, and Leviathan — which didn’t have Majestic’s repairs — cracked 20-feet down her side in a storm in 1929. The Board of Trade only allowed her to return to America after temporary repairs, and Leviathan sailed on a better weather course at a lower speed.
Berengaria’s later surveys include information about thousands of loose rivets, while there is also some mention of hull fractures (more minor in her case) and trouble maintaining some of the ship in the boiler rooms, as the boilers’ layout seems to have prevented easy access. Extensive repairs were necessary to her oil bunkers, which had not originally been designed for oil but coal, while there are other reports of damage in hostile weather.
Aquitania and another ship, called something like ‘Andania’ seem to have had trouble with expansion joints, but that’s only very vague and I’ve little info. about that. I know there is a special rudder survey for Aquitania in 1927, which might indicate that that was troublesome.
Generally with many large ships, trouble was experienced with the fore and after peaks leaking.
Mark Chirnside
Member
.
Mark Chirnside
Member
All,
I've located an old newspaper cutting from 1921 dealing with Olympic's fastest crossing; it should detail her average speed and daily runs. I'll post it when it arrives.
Best regards,
Mark.
I've located an old newspaper cutting from 1921 dealing with Olympic's fastest crossing; it should detail her average speed and daily runs. I'll post it when it arrives.
Best regards,
Mark.
Teri Lynn Milch
Member
Mark,
Look forward to reading it.
Teri
Look forward to reading it.
Teri
Mark Chirnside
Member
Olympic's first oil-burning crossing Westbound (practically stuffed full of passengers) averaged 21(.9?) knots, but her best run was 594 miles, or 24.01 knots!
Captain Hayes had said he would not be 'driving' the old girl's new oil fired system yet, but the results when he did seem magnificent. The fastest crossing average unfortunately is not in the 1921 cutting. Olympic was fully broken in, in fine condition, and smooth seas, but the 594 mile westbound run seems her record.
On the other hand, Leviathan raced the Olympic in the 1920s and at 25-26 knots she just got ahead.
Best regards.
Mark.
Captain Hayes had said he would not be 'driving' the old girl's new oil fired system yet, but the results when he did seem magnificent. The fastest crossing average unfortunately is not in the 1921 cutting. Olympic was fully broken in, in fine condition, and smooth seas, but the 594 mile westbound run seems her record.
On the other hand, Leviathan raced the Olympic in the 1920s and at 25-26 knots she just got ahead.
Best regards.
Mark.
