Open the Watertight Doors!

[Jim Currie]

So my 84K guess was near enough ball park! I said it was very rough.

It follows she would have gone down like an express train after the red waterline was reached.

Ard

PS, I note my additional 'fiddle' with your sketch didn't go through. here it is again:

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Your red line shows the forecastle deck just under water. The forecastle went under at the time they launched boat D with QM Bright in charge. That was about 2:05am. The angle of trim that I got for that time was about 6.6 deg. Ten minutes later it was down by the head about 10 deg, and another 3,000 tons of sea water would have flooded into the ship. That is when Lightooler saw the crow's nest at the level of the water directly in from of him, and the water was then coming over the roof of the forebridge. The ship was becoming longitudinally unstable very fast. If it hadn't split apart soon after that, it would have tipped over and sunk within another minute or two.

 

[Jim Currie]

I'm curious Sam!

The tipping by the head would be very quick at first then get progressively slower as the loss of buoyancy got nearer to the tipping center. More of the sinkage would be vertical. There would come a time when the tipping by the head would stop. If the hull had remained intact, the angle by the bow would have began to reduce as soon as the added weight of flood water took over abaft the breached compartments. Eventually the hull would have returned nearer to an even keel before she sank. However, the added weight became lost buoyancy as the hull fractured abaft the center of flotation; is it not the case that the sinkage would be totally down ward and the trim by the head would remain at between 9 and 10 degrees?

If the two parts of the hull separated near the surface, I am curious as to why the bow did not rise vertically. I have seen istances of ships split in two by explosion. Usually the bow came vertical and... depending on the amount of stern left intact; the stern went head down then turned turtle.

Are you talking about a longitudinal overturning moment?

Jim C.

 

[Rob Lawes]

If the two parts of the hull separated near the surface, I am curious as to why the bow did not rise vertically. I have seen istances of ships split in two by explosion. Usually the bow came vertical and... depending on the amount of stern left intact; the stern went head down then turned turtle.


Jim C.

Jim, I would imagine that since the Bow section was already below the point of fracture that it continue in it's downward path. Ships that split in the center as a result of an explosion (I'm thinking HMS Antelope in the Falklands Conflict here) tend to flood from the center and there fore the middle goes down first.

That's what I'd guess at anyway.

 

[Jim Currie]

Remember the 'Antelope' Rob.

She was a little different in that she remained afloat for a long time before the last bang broke her back. I suspect that by the time the end came, her hull was pretty evenly flooded. Additionally, as you know, the internals of a war ship are a little different to say the least... bit of a honeycomb compared to a merchant ship.. even a passenger ship. The latter tend to be pretty cavernous in the engine room areas.
Titanic was no exception. My best guess is that the hull fractured vertically until the ship was left with a tendon-like keel attachment. There seems to have been a lurch to port just before the end. This might have introduced a twist to the 'tendon' and away she went. Because of the speed of the event, it is probable that the stern retained some buoyancy for a little while until it too was engulfed and the rest is history.

Just a guess!

Jim C.

 

[Bubba]

Counter flooding

There is mention of an open cargo door on the port side of the Titanic. Could this have been opened to help counter flood the ship to slow the list?

 

[Jim Currie]

Ajmal, your response is missing!

 

[Ajmal Dar]

Jim,

Sorry to ask this question after quite a few years.
Please clarify a point to me on the claim of Free Surface Water Effect. I have never understood it for anything other than a large body of water that has no impediments to its movement.

How could there be one on Titanic? Take the Engineering deck for instance. It was split into 16 compartments so FSWE would have been stopped by the bulkheads, and the WTD's were not gigantic orifices in them. Also, each compartment was full of massive objects to break up the passibility of FSWE (boilers, bunkers, engines, pumps, lots of rooms within each compartment etc.) How could there ever be a FSWE with so many obstructions to a wave like flow taking hold through the deck.

Also, all the other decks were crammed full of rooms, corridors etc so how could a free surface water effect ever happen on these decks as well?

I understand that leaving all the WTD's open would have quickly resulted in loss of power but I dont understand why it would have caused the ship to capsize.

Regards,

Ajmal

 

[Jim Currie]

Need to look back on the posts, Ajmal. I'll get back to you asap.

 

[Jim Currie]

Long time ago now, but if you look at the profile plan of the ship...at boiler rooms 2,to 5,....you will see that there seems to be a very large, unbroken area measuring about 90 feet x 40 feet immediately above each set of boilers. When the water level reached not much more than a foot above the top of the boilers, there would have been quite a bit of potential for Free surface effect in each boiler room so flooded. The combined rise in the C of G due to this might just have been enough to cause a lurch.
Keep in mind that Titanic was holed along at least 1/3 length and the flood water flowed aft internally. This would keep the initial trim fairly shallow by the head. Which suggests that there would have been sufficient time for an appreciable area of FS to build.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[John C Koelmel]

Would leaving the water tight doors open letting the ship flood more evenly let it stay afloat longer ?

 

[coal eater]

it would cause to rapid electricity loss,boiler rooms would quickly flood resulting in entire ship blackout,no steam no dynamo,no dynamo no lights no radio. and titanic would "zapsize" before sinking,titanic with opened watertight doors would sink in approx 45-60 minutes

 

[Steven Christian]

I believe you are correct on that timeline. Britannic sunk in aprrox 1/3 time it took Titanic to sink. It has been reported that the open doors and portholes hastened her sinking.

 

[coal eater]

britanic watertight doors were closed except two or three due to doorframe damage after mine explosion, britannic was designed to stay afloat with up to six flooded compartments,problem with britannic were opened portholes and water could easily flood compartments behind watertight doors and doomed the ship,with six compartments flooded forecastle would be awash or partially flooded,bridge would be at risk of floding too. and propellers would be 1/2 outside water (port and starboard while central propeller would be fully out of water) with propellers 1/2 out of water running engines would be futile,speed would e only few knots so not worth restarting engines,britannic did it twice and it was reason why it went down faster,going ahead with opened portholes and they were submerged was just headshot,none of ships could survive that kind of behavior. ..

if titanic had all watertight doors opened it would sink as fast as britannic because free access to boiler rooms engine room and further. the lights would be gone pretty quick after impact while watertight doors would remain open.. also some portholes on titanic were opened and this might have partially hastened sinking.but leaving opened watertight doors would be instant death sentence. it was possible to block float system that closes watertight doors but doing so to keep doors open would be dumb and suicidal.

our fishing boat had small titanic moment when we were leaving port to do some fishing,hull started leaking so boat was stopped but attempt to patch hole failed and we started engine again to return to port....we closed doors from cabin to storage room to stop water spreading..leak was very small so we reached port in two hours. flooding was caused by rotten hull plank under storage room,fridge was lost due to flooding...

 

[Tigrou]

After the collision with the iceberg, six compartments were breached. The doors between each compartment were immediately closed.
The ship began to lean forward under the weight of the water in that area of the ship and the compartments began to spill into the adjacent compartments.

I wondered if not closing the doors immediately might have slowed the sinking (and thus perhaps saved more lives).
If the doors had not been closed, water would still have flooded the other compartments, but the ship would probably have remained horizontal.
The ship would have eventually sunk (nothing could have prevented it).