Samuel Halpern
Member
There is nothing wrong with seeing a green light before a red or vice-versa, Alex. The important fact I'm trying to get over to you is that neither of these coloured lights you are talking about... the ones seen by Boxhall...were on the Californian. Because at the time these two white lights were seen, Californian was showing a green light. She never showed her red sidelight in the direction of Titanic's signals until just before the last signal was seen by Gibson. Now do you get it?Jim, of course I do not suggest that, and Mr. Boxhall has never testified that he saw a sidelight before he saw masthead lights.
Let us forget about the testimony he gave in England.
In the USA he clearly stated he saw the green before he saw the red.
Could you please explain what is wrong with that?
That is why not all testimonies should be treated the same. I believe that Mr. Boxhall’s testimony is one of the most reliable because it is almost consistent with Mr. Gibson’s testimony, and the testimony of the survivors from the lifeboat #8.Forget about just depending on Boxhall.
From 5/O Lowe's deposition:
"As I was putting over the starboard emergency boat somebody mentioned something about a ship on the port bow. I glanced in that direction and saw a steamer showing her red light about 5 miles to the northward of us.
At this time fourth officer Boxhall was firing off signals of distress, and we also Morsed to the ship by the electric Morse lamps on the bridge.
When I had got these boats tied together I still saw these in the same position, and shortly afterwards she seemed to alter her position and open her green. I knew a few minutes afterwards all the lights went out, and I did not see any more lights until I saw the lights of the Carpathia."
Someone care to explain?
Jim, the testimony of Mr. Boxhall and Mr. Gibson more or less agree.There is nothing wrong with seeing a green light before a red or vice-versa, Alex. The important fact I'm trying to get over to you is that neither of these coloured lights you are talking about... the ones seen by Boxhall...were on the Californian. Because at the time these two white lights were seen, Californian was showing a green light. She never showed her red sidelight in the direction of Titanic's signals until just before the last signal was seen by Gibson. Now do you get it?
The only thing that throws Lowe's account off is if he got the colors mixed up during his recollections. For example:That is why not all testimonies should be treated the same.
I find it hard to keep up with you, Alex. But I'll try.Jim, the testimony of Mr. Boxhall and Mr. Gibson more or less agree.
Mr. Boxhall saw the green light first, than he saw both sidelights together and then he saw the red one by itself.
Mr. Gibson has a similar account with some difference in the time, but why we should believe Mr. Gibson more than we believe Mr. Boxhall?
Jim, Captain Lord testified that the Californian was heading E.N.E. When he stopped her at 10:30
6709. Then you stopped and reversed engines, and what did you do then?
- I turned round and headed E.N.E. by the compass. I twisted her head to E.N.E.
Then Mr. Stone testified:
8061. If you turn round - heading W.S.W. I think you said?
- We were heading E.N.E. at the beginning of the watch and slowly turned round to W.S.W.
So before you could explain how come that the Californian that, according to you was swinging on a constant rate and in the same direction since she was stopped, ended up heading the same E.N.E. 1.5 hours after she was stopped, we should probably take Mr. Gibson’s testimony about relative bearings with caution.
Forget about just depending on Boxhall.
From 5/O Lowe's deposition:
"As I was putting over the starboard emergency boat somebody mentioned something about a ship on the port bow. I glanced in that direction and saw a steamer showing her red light about 5 miles to the northward of us.
At this time fourth officer Boxhall was firing off signals of distress, and we also Morsed to the ship by the electric Morse lamps on the bridge.
When I had got these boats tied together I still saw these in the same position, and shortly afterwards she seemed to alter her position and open her green. I knew a few minutes afterwards all the lights went out, and I did not see any more lights until I saw the lights of the Carpathia."
Someone care to explain?
Yeah, right, except Mr. Boxhall testified a few times that the steamer he was watching was meeting them. The one in your interpretation was 6 - 7 miles to the west of the Titanic. No, Jim, Mr. Boxhall was watching the Californian, and I am getting tired of your constant expression of superiority. Of course you are a professional Mariner, and I am not, but you are ignoring the inconvenient questions, and repeating over and over again that Mr. Boxhall saw the red light first, although I clearly showed to you it was a mistake.There is no point in continuing this nonsense, Alkex, The most polite reply I can think of at the moment is that if you do not understand the theory behind the arrangement and concept of "Range Lights, you are plainly out of your depth and have no idea what you are talking about
As for why a captain should suddenly alter course... try this for size and remember that both Rostron and Moore did exactly the same thing/
View attachment 48062
Greetings Julian, Yes it has been several years since I posted. I have a first generation copy of Captain Lord's February 1961 interview on cassette tape. It was given by the late Leslie Harrison to another gentleman (who has since also died) who in turn gave it to me. I did have it copied onto a CD but sadly there is a gap on the CD, and the CD is not as good quality as the cassette tape. I'm working on a transcript of the entire recording.Hello Paul,
I am very pleased to see you posting again on here.
I have made a particular study of every single post you have made on here, as firstly you made a particular contribution about the Parisian and a particular contribution about The Californian's cargo, and secondly you have always been most courteous and open and objective in your posts.
We are in difficulties in dealing with lots of current threads on The Californian, and discussion of Sam's new book etc.
Paul, I think you will find Sam's new book of considerable interest.
I do hope you will participate again as fully as you have done so in the past.
As an bit of an aside, I seem from memory to recall a reference by you to having a recording on disc of the Captain lord 1961 taped interview transcripts... if my memory is correct I would be very interested if you could make a copy available to me.
Cheers,
Julian
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