Titanic's bow name plates

[Steven Hall]

"Does the name appear on the bow on those pictures taken shortly after launch?"
Paul, I will get to that tomorrow.

Bob, I believe like you said - the name went on before launch.

What's interesting is that fig 2 shows the letters positioned differently when she left Southampton - and viewing the dive footage again that at least one letter and possibly 3 are missing.

I believe before she left Belfast they had a second bite of the cherry regarding the port side name plate. This brings me back to sectionalized (letter grouping) plates

 

[Parks Stephenson]

If the conclusions at which the group is arriving are true, then I would offer the following speculation:

- The ship's name was cut into the shell plating at some point in time after plating had been completed and before the hull's launch.

- The steel plating was painted soon after the plating process was complete (probably in sections), in order to protect the steel from the elements. Therefore, the blank plate that would bear the ship's name was already painted when work began to cut the name into the steel. The paint would protect the plate until the time came to cut in the letters.

- Cutting the letters into the steel obviously exposed bare steel to the elements, so the area was repainted after the cutting work was complete. I suggest that a large rectangular area around the letters was painted for the sake of complete coverage and aesthetics. Slight differences in the paint used (or even the age of the paint) might account for the "separate panel" that seems to appear in certain photographs. It's not a separate panel after all, but rather a defined area of fresher paint.

- The gold in the letters was filled in later.

This is my speculation, based on what I see in the photos and the discussion about the subject here. Honestly, I hadn't thought so deeply about this subject before this conversation came up.

Parks

 

[Parks Stephenson]

Following through with this line of thought, then Olympic wouldn't have a similar shape around her letters because her entire hull was repainted after launch.

Parks

 

[Parks Stephenson]

One last data point, then I'm done...plating of #401 was completed in October 1910, about seven months before her launch. The older paint could have been exposed to as much as 7 months' worth of sun and elements before her name was cut in.

Parks

 

[Dan Cherry]

Paul,
I didn't see an answer to your question about the stern lettering, so here goes:

Yes, the name and registry was cut in on the stern before launch. A picture (going from memory here, will confirm later) in I think Leo Marriott's book "Titanic" shows a decent reproduction of a photo of the hull on the gantry prior to launch. The name and registry can be discerned. From what I've seen, it's the only pre-launch picture I've seen showing this, and between this and the Queenstown photo from April 11, 1912 have I seen the name on the stern at all...

 

[Bob Read]

Steve:

I can't explain why some letters aren't visible in dive footage. I can't even begin to put forward a plausible scenario for letters applied individually or in sections. I have heard theories that the "rectangular area" was milled
out then individual letters milled into rectangular pieces of steel were somehow placed into the milled out receiving area.

Personally, I have never really bought into that
theory. It seems from an engineering standpoint
that it would be much easier and more practical
to just cut the letters in with a portable milling machine like a router.

Ken Marschall's inspection of the Nomadic would seem to put the individually placed letters theory to rest.

Regards,
Bob Read

 

[Nicolas Roughol]

For those of you wondering how deep in the steel Nomadic's name is incised, you may take a look at this picture of Nomadic's stern, from Fabrice Vanhoutte's website: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/dominator/nomadic/rub-photos/bigimages04-00/2000-05.htm

It's really hardly noticeable with paint over it, so we can't really tell from pictures whether or not it was the case for Titanic. But as Ken Marschall put it, there is very little doubt, if any, that Titanic followed the same pattern.

 

[Scott R. Andrews]

Nicolas,

Thanks for posting that link. The way the letters "C H E R B O U R G" are incised into the steel are the way I would expect to see the name and port of registry marked out for the painters on the Olympic-class ships as well. This is the same manner in which the painter's guide lines appear for the yellow stripe between the black and white on "The Big Piece". The only question I've ever had personally is whether these characters were layed out and then ground into the steel in situ using some sort of portable tool, or whether they were machine-cut into the plating in the shop prior to the plate being hung up and riveted, as Bob has stated above. I've suspected the latter to be true, though it's hard to know. There were a number of machines available in the shops capable of performing such an operation, the only question being the size of the steel plate that could reasonably be locked down onto the work surface of the machine.

Regards,
Scott Andrews

 

[Bob Read]

The reason I don't think that the name was cut into the plate before its installation on the frames is the starboard side photo of Britannic on the ways which is found in the book "Titanic and Her Sisters, Olympic and Britannic". In that photo it is clear that the name has not yet been cut into the plating. That is why I believe it was cut after the plate was added to the frames and before the launch.

Regards,
Bob Read

 

[Paul Lee]

Theres a photo of Titanic on the stocks - probably taken on May 31st, 1911 as the foreground shows an unfamiliar site (a lady!) in the foreground. Does this picture show the port bow name?

With best wishes

Paul

 

[Mike Bull]

Fascinating to see that lettering on Nomadic's stern. Hope they can save that old girl, by the way...

 

[Bob Read]

I'm wondering if we can use the Nomadic as an exact example of how Titanic's plates were "cut in". On Nomadic, it looks like they cut in a narrow outline of each letter. It was my impression that on Titanic the entire width of each letter was cut in, not just the outline. One reason I thought that was because of the shapes of the lines that formed the letters. They were rounded at the terminal ends as if cut by a round milling bit. Maybe I'm mistaken about exactly how they were cut in. At least from the photo we can see that they were not put on separate plates.

Regards,
Bob Read

 

[david wilson]

Bob,I would have to say that the shell squad plater(iron shipwright in those days)would have marked the name from a detailed drawing.His helper would then centre dab ( pop )every inch round this outline.Then using a slab of fire hardened chalk,they would highlight the letters.The plates are then left in the hands of the caulking dept.Because there was no air driven hammers then,several caulkers would follow these dab marks with a 2lb hammer & "diamond" or "gouge" chisel to the req'd depth.
regards.
dw (ex H&W plater)

 

[Bob Read]

David:

I'm not sure I completely understand all the specific procedures you have outlined. However, it seems as if you are describing a procedure that would have been performed on the plate before it was riveted in place. In our earlier discussion I said that there was photographic evidence from Britannic that the plating was in place with no name yet cut in.

If you are describing a procedure performed on the plate before it was riveted in place, is it not possible that they used a different procedure on these Olympic class vessels wherby
the procedure to cut in the name was perfomed on the erected plate?

Regards,
Bob Read

 

[david wilson]

Bob,as you can see from the above photos #5 & #6 there are two construction lines above & below the name.
These lines,along with a frame # would be supplied to the plater to enable him to position a full size template to mark the name in the desired spot.
As in all building & construction there are agreed stage payment dates set out.In which case if the plating dept are dragging their feet then to meet the schedule the plate would go up without the name,shell plating completed & stage payment made.The launch date & time was paramount.This was dictated by the tide,that waits for nobody.To get the stage payments in perspective.I spent some time in H&W's planning & work preparation (hull) dept.A famous statement by the then head of that dept,a Mr Frank Durrschmidt,from the USofA."IF WE CAN BRING THE DELIVERY DATE OF ONE BOAT FORWARD BY ONE DAY,THE MONIES SAVED WILL PAY THIS DEPT'S WAGES FOR THE NEXT YEAR".In which case the name could be added at anytime.But it was desirable to have as much work done on the ground,cheaper, quicker & safer.From information acquired on ET,I am lead to believe "olympic" was involved in a shunt,men were taken off titanic to carry out repairs.This in turn would've put brittanic's schedule out the window & it would be catch-up time,overtime all round.
regards.
dw