Warning the passengers

Dear Eric,

"Subcommittee of the Committee on the commerce United Staes Senate 62nd congress S RES 283 - directing the committee on commerce to investigate the causes leading to the wreck of the white star liner Titanic" Part 15 Dgiest of testimony, wash government printing office.

A Crew Boat Drill testimony provided by Boxhall, seaman evans, officer lowe, seaman brice, and seaman clench. Crew boat drill was conducted in presence of board of trade surveyors. Pages 212,213,375,376,641,650, and 674.

That boat assignments had been issued was testified in the affirmative by seaman clench and brice, plus steward crowe 640, 641, and 650.
Maureen.
 
Mike Standart,
Also wish to thank the brave Mike who took a stab at my question (Standart) and not at me, troll that I am. Your answer was very helpful.
Thanks. Maureen.
 
Hi Maureen, you didn't sound like a troll to me. Phil's pretty good at weeding them out when they slip on in. Besides, the question was hardly a bad one. On the testimony you cited, I've read over some of the same material. Yes, the assignments were made, but from the looks of things, the word just plain didn't get out to the crew. As to the drill, not all the boats were lowered. Several were swung out, some were lowered part of the way, but(If memory serves) only two were actually lowered all the way to the water. Harland & Wolff did some testing in Belfast as well, but it seems few of the officers knew of them.

Bottom line; poor communications was a killer...one of several that night.

Erik; I'm not certain if impressing the urgency of the situation on the passangers would have helped or harmed. I've seen arguements for both, with a notable conterary opinion from John Maxtone-Graham on pg 65 of The Only Way To Cross. This is a slightly controversial question. One can scarcely blame E.J. for wanting to keep a lid on things...however, Graham is of the opinion that the business-as-usual approach cost an additional 400 lives.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
Dear Mike Standart,
Glad that I do not meet the qualifications for troll. And thanks for the information regarding the details of the testing on the lifeboats. Your memory serves you right about the two boats during the crew boat drill, but I think that all were tested at some point when the ship was first inspected. But I may be wrong on that.

Also, a comment above said something about Murdoch being assigned to notify the passengers and that he advised others to do this. Wouldn't that be expected? I mean, a high ranking officer would deligate in an emergency especially when his talents were needed fo rthe life boats and the stewards would be far more familar with which rooms were occupied and which were not.

That is another thing, the ship was actually travelling about 30% empty right? Wouldn;t that make it harder to figure who is not hearing you and an empty room. Was there time to notify carefully everyone? Maureen.
 
Maureen,

As I think I stated a boat drill for the EBOT (English Board of Trade) is required to recieve passenger certification it is still that way today. But there was not boat drill while underway involving passengers. My main arguement was that even if there had been most would have gone to the nearest boat and the one assighned.
Captain Smith sent Murdoch to notify passengers but I am sure that he assumed that Murdoch would find a steward as you said delegate it and return to the boat deck. There is general lack of communication between all parts which may have lead to more lives lost.

Michael,

John Maxton Grahm is a good writter I also have the book mentioned above as well as Liners in the Sun another good book. I think that I would have kept a lid on things especially knowing that the passengers outnumber my crew and if a riot incurred then many more would have died. As it is a small riot started to develop at Lightollers boat and is rumored that Murdoch, Wilde, and Moody (Inger and I have had quite the intense discussion. I placed Wilde and Moody there via the Crew Particulars of Engagement of that night. Lightoller said he saw Moody and Murdoch and I assuming Wilde would have been near by)had the same trouble. Thoughts???

Erik
 
Maureen; you score on both points. Once Murdoch was told to get the word out, he would have delegated that task to subordinates and he did just that...and had to as a single man can only do so much, and he was needed elsewhere. Yes also to the fact that the Titanic was not carrying her full capacity of passangers. According to the British Board of Trade Report, there were 325 1st class, 285 2cnd class 706 3rd class and 885 crew actually on board for the maiden voyage for a total of 2,201 people actually on board.

Erik, I would tend to go with the testimony rather then the Particulars of Engagement if only because few crew appeared to have any idea where they were supposed to be in the first place. The assignments were made, but one has to wonder how many actually troubled to read the bloody thing. Obviously, the testimony has to be taken with a grain of salt as well as some of the witnesses were of questionable reliability, but the written plan appears to have been the first thing out the window that night. I'm still studying a lot of books on the subject and the investigation transcripts are going to take me a few months to go through. I may be able to offer more after that.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
Michael,

I too am ransacking the Crew Particulars. But it wasn't unitl recently that noted Moody being placed with Murdoch starboard side. I have been trying to piece together what happend to both Moody and Wilde. Lightoller is the one that said he saw Moody, Lightoller is a crediable soure I think. Wilde I am not sure on. After Lightoller refused to go on a boat as ordered by Wilde I assume he went starboard side to help. Since at the time there was nothing else for him to do. I find it so odd on many levels the actions that were taken. Well, I will keep looking and tell me what you know on Wilde and Moody if you wouldn't mind.

Erik
 
Erik -

Could you please cite the exact passage where Lightoller says he saw Moody? He was very categoric in his British Enquiry testimony in stating that he did *not* see Moody. I'd be interested in seeing the precise quote rather than a paraphrase of the source. I also find it odd that he did not tell the Moody family that he had seen James Moody shortly before the end.

I need to look at the Particulars of Engagement again if Lightoller is flatly contradicting the testimony he gave at the inquiry. I just don't see any feasible motive for his emphasis on not having seen Moody during the evacuation, but having heard *later* that he did. He was asked a specific question about Moody's whereabouts and gave a very specific answer - why would he lie? Unless you buy the idea that poor Lights was a congential liar...

Regards,

Inger
 
Just to clear something up, boat assignments were issued for all the crew and posted where they could read them. Many did not bother, especially among the black gang. It's all in the two enquiries.

There were no boat places assigned to passengers. In fact, somebody at the British enquiry said it would be most unwise to do so. I guess it was part of the floating hotel image. Never remind the passengers that the ship might sink.
 
Inger,

I don't think that Lights is a liar but if you use this website and look up Moody at the bottom it should tell you exactly where you can find that info. I would have to check the BOI but I think that Lightoller was not asked directly of Moody or Murdochs where abouts. But he was for the BOT and CPOE. I know this Moody and Wilde thing is a hot topic. But I believe that Moody and Wilde where helping load life boats to the end. I am attemping to put all of my reasearch into a more formal format I think that Wilde and Moody are unsung heros that night.

Dave,

Now it is required that every person have a space on a life boat and there assighnments at least on my ship go by deck and cabin number. There are clearly posted on the stateroom walls next to the poster showing how to put on a life belt. Not class. Crew members now days are required to also as you stated above post there boat stations in " crew common spaces and areas of easy access to all crew members officer or regular" that was a quote from the Coast Guard inspection book. Back then though passenger boat drills told you what boat to go to. But I don't think Titanic had that seeing as there wasn't enough boats for all.

Dan,

My Particualrs of Engagement I got off of the web but the site is forgotten in the recess of my brain so I will find it and let you know.

Erik
 
Erik -

As I said before, I'm not querying this to be pedantic. However, I've spent some time working with the Particulars of Engagement at the PRO in Kew (not only for the Titanic, but also for the Olympic, Oceanic and a quite a few other vessals, including the Lusitania). Given that I've spent a few years investigating James Moody, and his movements during the disaster, I'm fairly certain that any references to Lightoller claiming to have seen him just prior to the ship foundering would have leapt out at me. Most of my sources on Moody are kept in semi-ordered files and cross referenced, as I don't trust my memory when referring to sources. This is why I asked you for a very *specific* citation - i.e. an exact quote. I'd be *extremely* interested to see anything like what you described in these documents, as it would shed light not only on Moody's movements but also on Lightoller's character.

The following question was put to Lightoller at the British Inquiry:

14769. What was the last you saw of Mr Moody?

This is a very specific question. Nor is there any gray area in Lightoller's answer:

I do not remember seeing Mr Moody that night at all, though I am given to understand, from what I have gathered since, that Mr Moody must have been standing quite close to me at the same time. He was on top of the quarters clearing away the collapsible boat on the starboard side, whilst Mr Murdoch was working at the falls. If that is so, we were all practically in the water together.

We don't know from whom Lightoller later learned of Moody's whereabouts, but my guess is Hemming. Hemming is on record as having seen Moody on the starboard side working at A (and, indeed, is the last identifiable source to have named and placed the most junior officer anywhere), and he and Lightoller were familiar with each other. Possibly Lightoller also heard that Moody was there from another source as well, but if so he does not identify them.

As for Moody being an 'unsung hero'...well, I've been 'singing' his praises for some time now ;-) But I do agree he's worthy of more study, which is one reason why I've devoted considerable time and resources to constructing his personal and career history.

Best wishes,

Inger
 
Inger,

Against my better judgement and as I am underway I do not have all of my resources on hand I will have to agree with you. I may have either twisted what was said or since I got my version of CPOE of the internet it may be tainted somewhat but will definitly look for it. If you go to the main page in Encylodpedia Titanica search for Moody and pull up his little profile it says that he was last seen by Lightoller at 2:18. I also recall Lightoller saying something to that effect in the CPOE but can not remeber what exactly. For my purposes though I think that I would or will place Moody starboard side. Hemmings saw him so it may be that Lightoller couldn't identify him but Hemmings could and the both had a conversation and Lightoller was swayed as you suggested. It is very unusal for the most Junior Officer to remain onboard till the end.
You are a good source of info and obiviously have more time and resources with you currently. I have a lot of resources just not all with me.

Erik
 

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