Samuel Halpern
Member
Let's be clear about this. There was no watertight door indicator equipped on Titanic.
Watertight Door Indicator / Activation Switch
- Thread starter Nathan Robison
- Start date
Christophe Puttemans
Member
The other day I watched the 1956 hour-long TV-special of ANTR. Instead of a watertight door indicator like the 1958 film of the 1997 film, it only had a large sign "emergency doors" above the lever to close them. Is this more historically accurate than a watertight door indicator?
A Night To Remember - Television Version, 15:15 mark.
A Night To Remember - Television Version, 15:15 mark.
Alex Clark
Member
I found it surprising that there might be no indicator on the bridge, but then i read recent that the Herald of Free Enterprise had no bow door indicator on the bridge. It seems odd that as late as the 1980s such an omission would be made.
danwat1234
Member
No clear zoomed in picture of the Popular Electricity Magazine May 1911?
Bob Read
Member
I have written a new investigative article which reconsiders the evidence whether Titanic had a watertight door tell-tale indicator on her navigating bridge. The case against the presence of an indicator has always rested on the reliability of the testimonies of quartermaster Olliver and 3rd officer Pitman. In my investigation I have found that the case against an indicator on Titanic has always depended on interpreting the testimonies of these two men uncritically and at face-value. It is my hope that others will look at their testimony as critically as they would Lord’s or Lightoller‘s. I’m not trying to persuade anyone so much that Titanic had this indicator rather that the possibility should be moved from a flat “no” to at least uncertainty If not plausibility. Here is the link to the article: http://www.titanic-cad-plans.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Watertight-Door-Article.pdf
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Borsi Miklós
Member
Ehhez sem értek, de idáig nem tűnt fel senkinek? Ha jól emlékszem (mende/monda) Volt záró ajtó 12 automata de 4 kézi. A falak magasságával is gond volt...
Michael H. Standart
Member
I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you just said here.
Bob Read
Member
Hi Michael: I ran Borsi’s post through Google translate but it didn’t help that much. Here’s the translation: “
Yes, that's the photo. The controls identified in the latter identify the two visible openings as whistle controls. If this is true, the controls for the watertight doors are not visible.
Perhaps Bruce Beveridge or Steve Hall can comment on this issue if they see this thread.
I don't understand this either, but has it not been noticed by anyone until now? If I remember correctly (go/say), there were 12 automatic closing doors but 4 manual. There was also a problem with the height of the walls...”
Steven Christian
Member
If this article is correct it seems odd that the Olympic would have them and then they wouldn't put the same system on Titanic.
www.encyclopedia-titanica.org
The Infamous Watertight Door Indicator : Mystery Solved
Brad Payne discovers evidence that suggests Titanic was fitted with a visual watertight door indicator...
Bob Read
Member
Hi Steven: The problem is that in that article one reference is used to “prove” the existence of an indicator on Olympic. The article was written about Olympic as she was about to enter service and was published in July 1911. It wasn’t until after Olympic’s maiden voyage that her Chief Engineer Joseph Bell wrote a memorandum to White Star officials in which he expressed the need for an indicator. So, that and many other things in it proves that article to be unreliable. This discussed in my article: http://www.titanic-cad-plans.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Watertight-Door-Article.pdfIf this article is correct it seems odd that the Olympic would have them and then they wouldn't put the same system on Titanic.
The Infamous Watertight Door Indicator : Mystery Solved
Brad Payne discovers evidence that suggests Titanic was fitted with a visual watertight door indicator...
Steven Christian
Member
Yes you are correct that it doesn't prove Titanic had the system. But it is odd that they wouldn't carry that over to Titanic. I can see no logical reason why they would do that. Why would that magazine fabricate a story like that. Who would even think of a system like that if it didn't exist to write an article about it. That article was written in 1911. Too many unresolved questions for me to call it either way.
Bob Read
Member
We know Olympic and Britannic eventually got w.t. door indicators. A crucial question is when did Olympic get hers? If she didn’t get it until her 1912/13 refit then it is doubtful that Titanic had one. But if Olympic had her’s installed sometime between Jan. 1912 and May 1912 then I would say that the likelihood that Titanic had one is quite high, Olliver’s and Pitman’s testimonies notwithstanding.
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Bob's post #83 has the lead that explains Michael's query in post #82. Google translate shows that Borsi's post#81 quotation is Michael's August 2005 post #59 on pg.4 copied over in Hungarian.
The comment that Borsi added in post #81 translates as "I don't understand this either, but has it not been noticed by anyone until now? If I remember correctly (go/say), there were 12 automatic closing doors but 4 manual. There was also a problem with the height of the walls..."
My reply:
Angol: Borsi, thanks for your interest. May I suggest that you try Google translate here, as English seems to be the language most of the people can work in. Thanks.
Hungarian: Borsi, köszönöm az érdeklődést. Azt javaslom, hogy próbálja ki itt a Google fordítót, mivel úgy tűnik, hogy az angol az a nyelv, amelyen a legtöbb ember tud dolgozni. Köszönjük.
Bill
The comment that Borsi added in post #81 translates as "I don't understand this either, but has it not been noticed by anyone until now? If I remember correctly (go/say), there were 12 automatic closing doors but 4 manual. There was also a problem with the height of the walls..."
My reply:
Angol: Borsi, thanks for your interest. May I suggest that you try Google translate here, as English seems to be the language most of the people can work in. Thanks.
Hungarian: Borsi, köszönöm az érdeklődést. Azt javaslom, hogy próbálja ki itt a Google fordítót, mivel úgy tűnik, hogy az angol az a nyelv, amelyen a legtöbb ember tud dolgozni. Köszönjük.
Bill
Bob Read
Member
Thanks to Bill West for clarifying the context of Borsi's post. As I understand it, the crux of Borsi's post is what has changed since Michael Standart's post from 2005? In that post an analysis of the presence of a possible w.t. door indicator was being discussed with reference to a Fr. Browne photo of Olympic's bridge. The area where the indicator and the w.t. door actuator would be was obscured. What is more recent than 2005 is the release of a photo of Olympic's bridge taken on May 25, 1912. The part of the photo which shows two instruments on the navigating bridge forward bulkhead is shown here with my annotation of what these instruments may be. This photo is significant because the date it was taken falls within the date window where updated entries were made in blue in the "Andrews Notebook". That date window for these entries is from Jan. 23 1912 to March 22, 1913. It is the thesis of my article, http://www.titanic-cad-plans.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Watertight-Door-Article.pdf , that the May 25, 1912 photo shows both the w.t. door actuator and indicator. There is nothing in the appearance of the proposed w.t. door indicator in the photo which would rule it out based on the description in the Feb. 27, 1914 issue of Engineering of the indicator which was to be installed on Britannic.
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Thomas Krom
Member
Yesterday while helping out a friend with his replica of the forward Louis XIV staircase he asked me about the switchboards for the lights there, and I suddenly realized that one switchboard that came from the officers' quarters had been recovered that showcases that the alarm bells might was on a separate circuit than the lever that closed them.
Sadly, as you can see, the switchboard is damaged but the plaques that were under the switches still survive thankfully with number 22 being indicated as the "watertight door bells", if the warning bell mechanism was built into the lever why would it need a separate circuit for it? Of-course since the switchboard is incomplete we can't confirm nor can we deny it that the lever had it's separate switch. However it must be noted that fourth officer Boxhall testified on the third day of the American Senate Inquiry (the 22nd of April 1912) recalled the following:
If the statement is accurate, why would captain Smith asked specifically ask if he rang the alarm bell if in theory the alarm bell was built into the lever mechanism?
Sadly, as you can see, the switchboard is damaged but the plaques that were under the switches still survive thankfully with number 22 being indicated as the "watertight door bells", if the warning bell mechanism was built into the lever why would it need a separate circuit for it? Of-course since the switchboard is incomplete we can't confirm nor can we deny it that the lever had it's separate switch. However it must be noted that fourth officer Boxhall testified on the third day of the American Senate Inquiry (the 22nd of April 1912) recalled the following:
| Senator Smith | And by that had closed the watertight compartments? |
| Fourth officer Boxhall | Yes, sir; and the captain asked him if he had rung the warning bell. |
| Senator Smith | What did he say? |
| Fourth officer Boxhall | He said, "Yes, sir." |
| Senator Smith | What is the warning bell? |
| Fourth officer Boxhall | It is a small electric bell which rings at every watertight door. |
| Senator Smith | And he said that that had been done? |
| Fourth officer Boxhall | Yes, sir. |
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