William Graham
Member
My favorite is Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic
What is your favorite Lusitania documentary
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Jim Kalafus
Member
Lusitania: Death by Misadventure, if you can find it, is quite good.
kosta kokkinozis
Member
i saw one in 1993 which i have still called last voyage of the lusitania featurin the 92 93 ballard expeditinon.
Ryan McKeefery
Member
I saw that one. I was only about 7 or 8, though.
Can't remember much of it, and it's tho only one I've seen. Got Bob Ballard's book, though... all you need really.
Can't remember much of it, and it's tho only one I've seen. Got Bob Ballard's book, though... all you need really.
kosta kokkinozis
Member
i saw one called mysteries of the lusitania as part of a uk series called secrets of the deep featuring reenacted scenes in costume.one part showed schwieger putting on a record aboard u 20.i dont suppose anyone remebers it and could tell me the tune?
Ryan McKeefery
Member
A long way to Tipperary, perhaps?
The Germans loved that one.
Or maybe they were doing the old 'Apocalypse Now' scene - playing Dance of the Valkyries.
Schweiger - "I love the smell of torpedo smoke in the morning."
Not in good taste, I know.
Apologies, Ryan.
The Germans loved that one.
Or maybe they were doing the old 'Apocalypse Now' scene - playing Dance of the Valkyries.
Schweiger - "I love the smell of torpedo smoke in the morning."
Not in good taste, I know.
Apologies, Ryan.
Michael H. Standart
Member
>>Got Bob Ballard's book, though... all you need really.<<
Really? I prefer Bailey and Ryan's superlative work, but that's just me.
Really? I prefer Bailey and Ryan's superlative work, but that's just me.
Noel F. Jones
Member
Ride of the Valkyries actually (Walkurenritt - with them two dots over the 'u').
Noel
Noel
Eric Longo
Member
Hi All,
I thought that Ballard did not actually write that book? There is an error or two I think as well. And the "Tipperary" thing was from the film Das Boot unless I am mistaken although I am sure it could have been used in both.
Best,
Eric
I thought that Ballard did not actually write that book? There is an error or two I think as well. And the "Tipperary" thing was from the film Das Boot unless I am mistaken although I am sure it could have been used in both.
Best,
Eric
Ryan McKeefery
Member
I think I did see that in Das Boot, actually.
Thanks for reminding me that I had that film, Eric.
And about my last post - I was just extracting the urine.
Best regards, Ryan.
Thanks for reminding me that I had that film, Eric.
And about my last post - I was just extracting the urine.
Best regards, Ryan.
Samuel Halpern
Member
Das Boot, which had nothing to do with the Lusi of course, gave a good look into how life was aboard a German U boat in WW-II. I could only imagine that conditions were a little tighter in WW-I vintage boats. US subs produced after that war were referred to as pig boats.
kosta kokkinozis
Member
ive just seen a 2 hour documentary on the history channel called murder on the atlantic or something like that.
very interesting.
Apparently Alfred Vanderbilt had narrowly missed the titanics maiden voyage after cancelling at the last minute.
also the documantary said that just prior to sailing captain turner had taken part in a titanic liability hearing in new york.when asked by someone what he had learned from the titanic(as a captain)he said"nothing,it will happen again".interesting.
very interesting.
Apparently Alfred Vanderbilt had narrowly missed the titanics maiden voyage after cancelling at the last minute.
also the documantary said that just prior to sailing captain turner had taken part in a titanic liability hearing in new york.when asked by someone what he had learned from the titanic(as a captain)he said"nothing,it will happen again".interesting.
Ryan McKeefery
Member
Yes, I read about Vanderbilt. I expect that he would have done the same on Titanic's sloping decks as he did on Lusitania's. As an American, he should have known not to sail on Lusitania.
Did you know that American passengers were warned not to sail on the Lusitania (that voyage in particular) by the German Embassy, as old Lucy was earmarked for destruction?
I was amazed at how bold their statement actually was when I saw it; I think it was in the New York Times a week before, or something.
Did you know that American passengers were warned not to sail on the Lusitania (that voyage in particular) by the German Embassy, as old Lucy was earmarked for destruction?
I was amazed at how bold their statement actually was when I saw it; I think it was in the New York Times a week before, or something.
That's correct, Ryan. It first appeared in the New York Times on May 1.
Jim Kalafus
Member
It appeared the morning of the sailing. Many were aware of it, but just as many, if not more, were not.
>As an American, he should have known not to sail on Lusitania.
It was not quite as simple as that. Many of the "better placed" Americans were concerned enough before the warning appeared to directly ask Cunard if the voyage was safe. Ogden Hammond, for one, asked a Cunard "high up" (off the top of my head I do not recall whom it was) and was reassured that the voyage would be "as safe as crossing Broadway." Buy a transcript of the Limitation of Liability hearings to read further on this tangent. For those not as wealthy as Vanderbilt or Mrs. Hammond, that is to say 99% of those on board, the timing of the message guaranteed that it could not be heeded. Walking off the ship at that point was possible for all on board, of course, but offloading their already loaded luggage might have been difficult
and only an experienced traveller would have known if the U.S. Line's New York, sailing that day, would have honored their Cunard tickets- for most of those on board the idea of possibly forfeiting their fare would have been a daunting one. As would have been the thought of the 8 day crossing on the New York without one's baggage.
Fact is, " should have known not to" is redolent of the old 'she should have known better' charge people used to make about women who had been the victims of certain crimes. The only person to whom "should have known not to" can be applied in this case is Captain Turner- had he followed the clearly stated Admiralty orders, of which he was aware, it is fairly likely that Vanderbilt and all of the rest would have arrived in Liverpool unscathed. He DID know not to and, for reasons never satisfactorily explained, delivered his ship and close to 2000 people directly to the Germans.
That said, there WERE a lot of cavalier quotes attributed to various first class passengers by the NY Press on sailing day which can indicate either A) almost bizarre indifference to the obvious, or B) graveyard whistling. If you check out Mike and my article here on ET, there is a long and ingeniously weird rationale for staying aboard the ship offered by Theodore Naish (victim) to his wife, Belle (survivor) quoted in it, which shows the extend that people may have gone to to 'normalise' a decidedly abnormal situation.
One other thought- as of May 1st, nothing of the scale of the Lusitania torpedoing had yet happened, at least with regards to transatlantic travellers, so rationalizing away the ad (which ran on the travel page and not in the hard news section of the paper) would have been easier then than it would have been for someone reading it on May 8th.
>As an American, he should have known not to sail on Lusitania.
It was not quite as simple as that. Many of the "better placed" Americans were concerned enough before the warning appeared to directly ask Cunard if the voyage was safe. Ogden Hammond, for one, asked a Cunard "high up" (off the top of my head I do not recall whom it was) and was reassured that the voyage would be "as safe as crossing Broadway." Buy a transcript of the Limitation of Liability hearings to read further on this tangent. For those not as wealthy as Vanderbilt or Mrs. Hammond, that is to say 99% of those on board, the timing of the message guaranteed that it could not be heeded. Walking off the ship at that point was possible for all on board, of course, but offloading their already loaded luggage might have been difficult
Fact is, " should have known not to" is redolent of the old 'she should have known better' charge people used to make about women who had been the victims of certain crimes. The only person to whom "should have known not to" can be applied in this case is Captain Turner- had he followed the clearly stated Admiralty orders, of which he was aware, it is fairly likely that Vanderbilt and all of the rest would have arrived in Liverpool unscathed. He DID know not to and, for reasons never satisfactorily explained, delivered his ship and close to 2000 people directly to the Germans.
That said, there WERE a lot of cavalier quotes attributed to various first class passengers by the NY Press on sailing day which can indicate either A) almost bizarre indifference to the obvious, or B) graveyard whistling. If you check out Mike and my article here on ET, there is a long and ingeniously weird rationale for staying aboard the ship offered by Theodore Naish (victim) to his wife, Belle (survivor) quoted in it, which shows the extend that people may have gone to to 'normalise' a decidedly abnormal situation.
One other thought- as of May 1st, nothing of the scale of the Lusitania torpedoing had yet happened, at least with regards to transatlantic travellers, so rationalizing away the ad (which ran on the travel page and not in the hard news section of the paper) would have been easier then than it would have been for someone reading it on May 8th.
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