Why didn't Titanic capsize?

Parks article...was this the one you were referring to?
If its another one post the link if you have it. Would be interested in reading it if you don't mind. Cheers and Welcome to E.T.
That's exactly what I was looking for, as the Internet seemed to run away with his claims and exaggerate it into "The ship would have capsized if it weren't for the coal fire!" Which is actually pretty far from what the study says.

I'll need to do a more thorough read of the GHS, but already I'm starting to see some differences of interpretation from Thomas and Stettler (who wrote the study) and Park's thoughts on it after the fact.
 
Be careful about TV Documentaries. Mike. Most are based on "Look what we have discoverd -Gosh!." and "Good, entartainment"..principals.
As with all such disasters, millions of words and almost as many pontifications are publiciced concerning them. The hard evidence is usually ignored by those who have pre-judged and jumped to conclusions. However, even when such evidence is available or becomes available, they immediately set out to rubbish it, since it makes them looks like fools.
The following was concocted from actual evidence and the "Black Box" of the Concordia. Apart from a bit of self-aggrandisement by an individual, it seems to accurately describe what I remember.
View attachment 75725
Jim, I understand what you are saying and be weary of new evidence. However how we trust what was said the first time round? It rather remind me of the TITANIC story as times goes by we keep learning more new information of the disaster.
 
Jim, I understand what you are saying and be weary of new evidence. However how we trust what was said the first time round? It rather remind me of the TITANIC story as times goes by we keep learning more new information of the disaster.
Hello again, Mike.

The problem with all of this is that those who cannot visualise a described event and cannot come up with a logical reason for it based on a realistic construction of that event, go public with a personal version of it. For this reason, many individuals in this story have unfairly and illogically been branded as liars, fools. idiots and even irresponsible criminals. I am most aggravated by the reasons for publishing such inaccuracies based on individual Eureka! moments, all of which purport to be historical truth.

For a person to tell anything but the truth, that person has to have had a motive for doing so. The following motives were developed by arguably, one of the most knowledgeable person on the subject - Dr. Paul Ekman. Here are his 9 most frequent reasons for lying. I highlight the relevant ones in red and offer reasons for doing so.

"1. To avoid being punished. This is the most frequently mentioned motivation for telling lies. It’s important to note that there were no significant differences for lies told to avoid punishment for a purposeful misdeed versus an honest mistake.
2. To obtain a reward not otherwise readily obtainable.
3. To protect another person from being punished.
4. To protect oneself from the threat of physical harm.
5. To win the admiration of others.
6. To get out of an awkward social situation.
7. To avoid embarrassment.
8. To maintain privacy without notifying others of that intention.
9. To exercise power over others by controlling the information the target has.
"

With regard to Titanic crew, passengers and the rank and file crew witnesses from other vessels, we can eliminate reasons ,3,4,6.7.8 & 9 from the above list.

We know that certain crew members received payment form their stories so parts of the contents of such stories should be viewed with suspicion. There is therefore verification of motives 2 & 5 .
However, there was and remains to this day, an unusual aspect about a ship crew member witness which amateur historians ignore at their peril.

As by the very nature of their employment, a ship crew member rarely is alone when performing his duty. Consequently, unless he knows that all possible witnesses to an event have perished before he steps into the witness box, the following facts will govern the veracity of his answers:
A: No way he can be sure that the incident he is describing was, unknown to him, witnessed by another crew member.
B: A second witness to the same event may be called and subsequently demolish his lie.

Unless a positively identified "purposeful misdeed" was discovered, the only crew members who were likely to be punished were Certificated Officers. We have no firm evidence from them or others of any form of misdeed.
 
Hello again, Mike.

The problem with all of this is that those who cannot visualise a described event and cannot come up with a logical reason for it based on a realistic construction of that event, go public with a personal version of it. For this reason, many individuals in this story have unfairly and illogically been branded as liars, fools. idiots and even irresponsible criminals. I am most aggravated by the reasons for publishing such inaccuracies based on individual Eureka! moments, all of which purport to be historical truth.

For a person to tell anything but the truth, that person has to have had a motive for doing so. The following motives were developed by arguably, one of the most knowledgeable person on the subject - Dr. Paul Ekman. Here are his 9 most frequent reasons for lying. I highlight the relevant ones in red and offer reasons for doing so.

"1. To avoid being punished. This is the most frequently mentioned motivation for telling lies. It’s important to note that there were no significant differences for lies told to avoid punishment for a purposeful misdeed versus an honest mistake.
2. To obtain a reward not otherwise readily obtainable.
3. To protect another person from being punished.
4. To protect oneself from the threat of physical harm.
5. To win the admiration of others.
6. To get out of an awkward social situation.
7. To avoid embarrassment.
8. To maintain privacy without notifying others of that intention.
9. To exercise power over others by controlling the information the target has.
"

With regard to Titanic crew, passengers and the rank and file crew witnesses from other vessels, we can eliminate reasons ,3,4,6.7.8 & 9 from the above list.

We know that certain crew members received payment form their stories so parts of the contents of such stories should be viewed with suspicion. There is therefore verification of motives 2 & 5 .
However, there was and remains to this day, an unusual aspect about a ship crew member witness which amateur historians ignore at their peril.

As by the very nature of their employment, a ship crew member rarely is alone when performing his duty. Consequently, unless he knows that all possible witnesses to an event have perished before he steps into the witness box, the following facts will govern the veracity of his answers:
A: No way he can be sure that the incident he is describing was, unknown to him, witnessed by another crew member.
B: A second witness to the same event may be called and subsequently demolish his lie.

Unless a positively identified "purposeful misdeed" was discovered, the only crew members who were likely to be punished were Certificated Officers. We have no firm evidence from them or others of any form of misdeed.
Jim you beginning to sound like a Lawyer where common-sense goes out the window, just like the inquiry did so to!
 
Costa Concordia is almost a carbon copy of Titanic. Similar damage, between 4-6 compartments open to the sea, no hope of surviving. As with all "Two Compartment Damage Stability" ships, both vessels had the capacity for more adjacent compartments flooding, until the weight of the ship overcame the weight of displaced water, when Archimedes takes over. Costa started to sink on an even keel, and if she'd stayed in open water would have just about gone down the same way. However when a ship sinks, towards the end it's difficult to say what will happen, and most move away from upright somewhere along the line. As the two vessels were both built with transverse WT bulkheads, they would most likely emulate each other. However, if one side touches an underwater object then the ship's natural buoyancy in staying upright (heavy weather would also affect it) is compromised, the water cannot equalise and so rushes over to the unsupported side, and this is in fact what happened to Costa. A shame she didn't sink in deep water actually as it would probably have saved everyone's lives and a lot of money in salvage!
Back to Titanic and Britannic - the double side fitted in Britannic and retrofitted in Olympic didn't save the ship, and I reckon Wilding didn't think it would either. Naval architects don't like outboard WT compartments, and both Lusitania and Britannic - possibly - showed he was right. Some later ships did have them, but not many, and the likes of Canberra and the current cruise ships don't have them either.
So what caused Britannic to list? Undoubtedly because she was holed on the starboard side, but even though the inner skin was called "double sided" it was in fact very narrow, only around 3' if I remember rightly without checking it in the plethora of stuff I have on the ship. This wouldn't have caused a capsize, only a list, and from the "sinking in real time" it seems that was the case - she went down in calm water with a slight list. To me, the speed that she went suggests that the WT doors throughout the ship were open, and that the ones up forward into BR6 definitely were because one of them is shown open in the underwater filming (just past an abandoned wheelbarrow). Britannic did have her bulkheads going up to the weather deck, so the open portholes would have hastened the end, but as we don't know how many were open, it's not really quantifiable. The closed decks, even though not watertight, would have restricted this water from down-flooding in to the bottom of the ship anyway, and I rather think it would have just risen with the waterline - the ship was lost anyway.
Back to Lusitania which went even faster, some deja vu from the report into the sinking by modern computer methods from RINA and H&W which I attended and which Sam references in his flooding article, there is a section where Peskett of Cunard and Wilding were discussing the subdivision of M&L v the Olympic class. Peskett was reticent on this as he was more or less subservient to Admiralty and had to mind his P's and Q's, but it was generally agreed that with coal firing, it was impossible to ensure the closing of the longitudinal bunker doors in the Cunarders, and that flooding would occur to such an extent - plus possible capsize - that M&L would have foundered in the same way as Titanic did with similar damage - as Lusitania tragically did a few years later. With oil firing this would not have been the case, and if L had managed to shut all her doors, would maybe have survived or at least lasted longer and with the capability possibly of correcting the list by counter-flooding. Interesting food for thought, but of course as in all these cases, pure conjecture!
Being a marine engineer of some 50 years working life, having sailed on all types of ship for 18 years and done a lot of naval architecture in my time, I find it to be a good thing to revisit in retirement to keep my mind awake and think things like this through...
If you haven't read it, the Costa report is quite good, though the translation from Italian is a bit awry at times. If anyone wants a link or attachment I can supply one. It's probably too big for this portal though.
I would love the link for the report!
Thank you
 
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