KB Vogelsong
Guest
Randy,
Those were great photos.
After reading this thread, though, I think I need a cigarette!
Those were great photos.
After reading this thread, though, I think I need a cigarette!
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Women Smoking
- Thread starter Andrew Maheux
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Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Hi Kelly and all:
I was glad to post the pics - mainly to show that much of what we've assumed to be post-WWI social behavior and attitudes actually were already emerging in the late Edwardian years. Also as the ladies depicted were major trendsetters of the era, I wanted to show in an iconographical context the role Lucile played as a tastemaker. These photos illustrate that to be dressed by Lucile was more than a personal statement of style, it was a declaration of daring and modernity.
As I explained in an earlier post, Lucile was a smoker. So, too, were many of her clients. Therefore her salons in London, Paris, New York (and latterly Chicago)were fully equipped to accomodate the cigarette-puffing society ladies and actresses of the day. As early as 1910, the showrooms and fitting rooms were supplied with "Lucile"-monogrammed lighters and specially-made crystal ash-trays for Miladi's convenience.
I have a photo I'll try to post later of a vignette from Lucile's opening style show in New York (March 1910) in which a group of models are posed smoking ciggies while at tea. Being American, the audience was not without several Mrs. Grundys who later complained to the press that the scene was "astonishing." Can't you just imagine these shocked old dowagers, their lorgnettes dropping at the sight?!
Randy
I was glad to post the pics - mainly to show that much of what we've assumed to be post-WWI social behavior and attitudes actually were already emerging in the late Edwardian years. Also as the ladies depicted were major trendsetters of the era, I wanted to show in an iconographical context the role Lucile played as a tastemaker. These photos illustrate that to be dressed by Lucile was more than a personal statement of style, it was a declaration of daring and modernity.
As I explained in an earlier post, Lucile was a smoker. So, too, were many of her clients. Therefore her salons in London, Paris, New York (and latterly Chicago)were fully equipped to accomodate the cigarette-puffing society ladies and actresses of the day. As early as 1910, the showrooms and fitting rooms were supplied with "Lucile"-monogrammed lighters and specially-made crystal ash-trays for Miladi's convenience.
I have a photo I'll try to post later of a vignette from Lucile's opening style show in New York (March 1910) in which a group of models are posed smoking ciggies while at tea. Being American, the audience was not without several Mrs. Grundys who later complained to the press that the scene was "astonishing." Can't you just imagine these shocked old dowagers, their lorgnettes dropping at the sight?!
Randy
Michael H. Standart
Member
Mrs. Grundy's! LOL! I take it you've read Heinlien then.
Dave Gittins
Member
Two nations divided by a common language!
Mrs Grundy originated in a late 18th century play. She symbolised excessive prudery and an enthusiam for depriving others of pleasure. She passed into the language but maybe she's less known in the USA.
In Oz, we'd call her a wowser. A wowser is one who hates to see somebody enjoying themselves. A reasonable person might think alcohol an evil, because it makes drunken men beat up their wives. A wowser objects to the sight of a man and his wife enjoying one or two glasses of wine at dinner.
Mrs Grundy originated in a late 18th century play. She symbolised excessive prudery and an enthusiam for depriving others of pleasure. She passed into the language but maybe she's less known in the USA.
In Oz, we'd call her a wowser. A wowser is one who hates to see somebody enjoying themselves. A reasonable person might think alcohol an evil, because it makes drunken men beat up their wives. A wowser objects to the sight of a man and his wife enjoying one or two glasses of wine at dinner.
Lee Gilliland
Member
Well well well. A fellow Heinlien addict. Interesting, the paths that cross on this board.
KB Vogelsong
Guest
Dave,
That seems rather archaic. Wowser's still exist in Oz? =)
KB
That seems rather archaic. Wowser's still exist in Oz? =)
KB
Inger Sheil
Member
Yah -
They're not encouraged, though!
One does still come across this particular usage in Oz, usually muttered under the breath and accompanied by an expletive. 'Pack of Wowsers...' (Have omitted the great Australian adjective from that line, but you can imagine where it fits in).
Came across an short review of a movie, 'An Airplane Elopement', that was airing at the Barmouth Pavillion the week the Lowe presentation was held there. It mentioned the eloping couple escaping from both the parents and 'Mrs Grundy', i.e. oppressive social convention/disapproval.
They're not encouraged, though!
One does still come across this particular usage in Oz, usually muttered under the breath and accompanied by an expletive. 'Pack of Wowsers...' (Have omitted the great Australian adjective from that line, but you can imagine where it fits in).
Came across an short review of a movie, 'An Airplane Elopement', that was airing at the Barmouth Pavillion the week the Lowe presentation was held there. It mentioned the eloping couple escaping from both the parents and 'Mrs Grundy', i.e. oppressive social convention/disapproval.
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
One thing can be said of Mrs. Grundy - the old bird certainly gets around!
Lee Gilliland
Member
There were women who smoked,even back in 1912 - would they be consigned to their own cabins, or would they be allowed just inside the door of the Smoking Rooms in order to light up?
Susan Morrison
Member
Hi Lee
It so happens I've been doing a bit of work on this...
One of the first women to been seen smoking cigarettes in public was the incredible Lola Montez. She was one of the greatest courtesans of the 19th century - her shenanigans were responsible for Ludwig of Bavaria being forced to abdicate - and started a bit of a vogue. By the 1900's, racy women were seen increasingly smoking in public, and younger ladies were known to smoke after dinner,but away from the Grande Dames, and rarely in front of the gentlemen.
By the 1910's to the 1920's the wealthier girls were continuing to have a few fly puffs on Egyptian ciggies - left about by older brothers, probably!
These women, of course, were the upper classes - working class women had smoked for years. Fish wives, for example, were famous for smoking long clay pipes. Tobacco chewing was widespread. There's a beautiful painting of two belowstairs maids sharing a cigarette on the stairs, late 1890's (I think).
From the 20's onward, the suffragette movement brought cigarette smoking out into the open - a case of fight for the right to vote before the cancer gets you, perhaps ?
However, as to public acknowledgment of women smoking - certainly not. The Smoking Rooms would have followed the mores of the time and the presence of ladies would not have been acceptable. The decks had plenty of places for a quick smoke. It's an interesting thought that the stewardesses and ladies maids probably had more of an opportunity for a f~~ on the fly than the ladies they looked after !
It so happens I've been doing a bit of work on this...
One of the first women to been seen smoking cigarettes in public was the incredible Lola Montez. She was one of the greatest courtesans of the 19th century - her shenanigans were responsible for Ludwig of Bavaria being forced to abdicate - and started a bit of a vogue. By the 1900's, racy women were seen increasingly smoking in public, and younger ladies were known to smoke after dinner,but away from the Grande Dames, and rarely in front of the gentlemen.
By the 1910's to the 1920's the wealthier girls were continuing to have a few fly puffs on Egyptian ciggies - left about by older brothers, probably!
These women, of course, were the upper classes - working class women had smoked for years. Fish wives, for example, were famous for smoking long clay pipes. Tobacco chewing was widespread. There's a beautiful painting of two belowstairs maids sharing a cigarette on the stairs, late 1890's (I think).
From the 20's onward, the suffragette movement brought cigarette smoking out into the open - a case of fight for the right to vote before the cancer gets you, perhaps ?
However, as to public acknowledgment of women smoking - certainly not. The Smoking Rooms would have followed the mores of the time and the presence of ladies would not have been acceptable. The decks had plenty of places for a quick smoke. It's an interesting thought that the stewardesses and ladies maids probably had more of an opportunity for a f~~ on the fly than the ladies they looked after !
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Very keen and interesting observations. There is another thread on this subject under the Passenger Research topic, in which I posted some pictures of Edwardian actresses smoking ciggies. Also there’s a discussion there about Titanic women smoking. Here’s the link:
https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/discus/messages/5811/40506.html
https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/discus/messages/5811/40506.html
Inger Sheil
Member
No worries, Randy - I've merged the two threads, so we can refer to the lovely images you posted.
Susan, you bring up flamboyant Irishwoman Lola Montez - someone for whom the phrase 'colourful' could have been invented. She's still held in quite a good deal of affection down here in Oz - her visit is etched on the national memory.
Edith Wharton wrote some memorable scenes about women smoking in this era. There's a wonderfully shaded scene in 1905's The House of Mirth that says a good deal about smoking and society women. It takes place between the lead character, Lily Bart, a young man she is trying to charm, and a female acquaintance:
Susan, you bring up flamboyant Irishwoman Lola Montez - someone for whom the phrase 'colourful' could have been invented. She's still held in quite a good deal of affection down here in Oz - her visit is etched on the national memory.
Edith Wharton wrote some memorable scenes about women smoking in this era. There's a wonderfully shaded scene in 1905's The House of Mirth that says a good deal about smoking and society women. It takes place between the lead character, Lily Bart, a young man she is trying to charm, and a female acquaintance:
Bob Godfrey
Member
Inger, here's a nice pic (from around 1890) to show that not all men were brutes. But I bet he wouldn't have shared his last Rolo.
Inger Sheil
Member
Hmmm....looks like J Bruce Ismay nicked off with Sherlock Holmes' deerstalker and is handing around a few joints! The lass in brown certainly looks relaxed. Sure it wasn't advertising one of those 'medicinal m~~~~~~~~ cigarettes' we discussed elsewhere a while back?
Of course, I - like Percy Gryce - would never allow my lips to be defiled by tobacco! (if only for the sake of not bunging up the lungs when I'm on scuba).
Of course, I - like Percy Gryce - would never allow my lips to be defiled by tobacco! (if only for the sake of not bunging up the lungs when I'm on scuba).
Bob Godfrey
Member
Well, Ing, if you ever take up the weed be sure to smoke a genuine Titanic brand like this:
