If they avoided the iceberg

[Sarah S]

Hello everyone,

if they had seen the iceberg in time and avoided the collision succesfully, what would they have done next? Stop all the machines and rested for the entire night, or would Smith still have ordered to continue with “low speed”?

Would the thought of having “almost” collided with such a huge iceberg have shocked them enough to radically change course/speed or what would the reactions have been from officers and captain, after passing by the enormous iceberg? Is it possible that they wouldn’t have thought much of the iceberg, since they succesfully spotted it in time and therefore would have confidently continued with speed and course, or would the reactions be rather fearful and concerned? Do you think Smith would have confronted the Operators regarding ice warnings and why they didn’t receive any reports that ice was on their course (since the Mesaba message was apparently never delivered to the Officers..)? I wonder what discussions they would have had about it.

Sorry for the many questions and thank you.

 

[PRR5406]

Smith would have commended his First Officer for his actions, then proceeded at reduced speed until the ship's Carpenter had sounded the ship. Once it had been determined the hold was dry in all locations, they'd have steered southerly and increased speed using the aft boilers.
Business as usual.
The actual disasterous nature of of Titanic's loss is what changed things across continents.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Smith would have commended his First Officer for his actions, then proceeded at reduced speed until the ship's Carpenter had sounded the ship. Once it had been determined the hold was dry in all locations, they'd have steered southerly and increased speed using the aft boilers.
Business as usual.

And you know all that? How are you so sure?

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Smith would have commended his First Officer for his actions

That is probably true.

then proceeded at reduced speed until the ship's Carpenter had sounded the ship

We cannot be sure of that. If the Titanic had clearly avoided the iceberg, why would Captain Smith have reduced speed when he had not done so earlier with the ice warning messages (at least some of which he knew about)?

Once it had been determined the hold was dry in all locations, they'd have steered southerly and increased speed using the aft boilers.

I don't think that would have been done.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

The core absolute is that if they had missed the iceberg, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The rest is conjecture.

I would hope that after a heart stopping near miss that they would have...after cleaning out their underwear...either slowed down, or altered course to work their way out of the icefield and into clear water.

That or stop for the night as the Californian and the Mount Temple did when they found themselves facing the ice pack. The common practice of the day was to crack on, to hold course and speed until they had a reason to do otherwise. Would a near miss have been considered a reason to stomp on the brakes?

I hope so, but I can't prove it.

 

[Sarah S]

Thank you for the replies. I know it’s difficult to answer because it is a “What if…” question that never happened. But I wonder about their reactions after missing the iceberg by inches. I doubt they would have continued the same way. One immense iceberg means there could be more on the way, so it wouldn’t be wise to continue with the same speed. Yet many ships react differently to these conditions. It was usual for ships to go full speed even under icy conditions. The Californian had stopped after spotting an ice pack.
Maybe Smith would have thought the iceberg was just a sole case and there won’t be more on the way because there was no ice warning message for that route, hence he would have ordered to continue..

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Maybe Smith would have thought the iceberg was just a sole case and there won’t be more on the way because there was no ice warning message for that route, hence he would have ordered to continue..

That part is a bit of a problem. They had the ice warnings in their hands. A lot of them in fact, so they couldn't plead ignorance. They knew!

Their crucial mistake was overestimating their ability to see the danger in time to avoid it and continue on their merry way. I would hope that the close call would have motivated to stomp on the brakes, but given the practices of the day, the other possibility would have been;

"Hay, we missed that big bruiser so we should be able to keep right on doing it! We've got this!"

And ahead of them was the main body of the pack ice which the Californian and the Mount Temple stopped for which would have fed them some Humble Pie. Enter a far worse accident, stage right!

 

[PRR5406]

The whole question is preposterous.
What is she had lived to serve in WW1? What would her assignment have been?
What is the fifth compartment hadn't been breached?
What if it was a 300 foot gash, rather than discreet punctures?
What is she was made of foam rubber?
The eyeball investigations reveal a brand new, luxury ocean liner of incredible size and technology,
with fresh paint, some of it possibly still tacky, nested in mud on the floor of the North Atlantic at approximately
2:28AM, April 15, 1912.
Perhaps a better question would be, what if Thomas Andrews had gotten an additional ten lifeboats?

 

[Sarah S]

That part is a bit of a problem. They had the ice warnings in their hands. A lot of them in fact, so they couldn't plead ignorance. They knew!

Yes they did receive ice warnings but if I remember correctly the Mesaba message which reported of ice right on their way in the night of the sinking wasn’t delivered to the bridge and if delivered could possibly have lead to bigger caution regarding the speed of the ship. Therefore certain ice warnings can play a crucial role in how strongly the Captain perceives danger or safety hence picking the precautionary measures.
So I assume, the fact they didn’t receive the Mesaba ice warning, and then luckily missing out on the collision, could have lead the Captain to continue with the speed and course because he’d consider it an exception. But had they received the said ice warning and then missed the iceberg, the Captain would have either stopped or slowed down. Because the explicit ice warning message would warn him of even more ahead!
I am just writing what I imagine though, I find it interesting to think how they would have continued..

 

[Sarah S]

What is she had lived to serve in WW1? What would her assignment have been?
What is the fifth compartment hadn't been breached?
What if it was a 300 foot gash, rather than discreet punctures?
What is she was made of foam rubber?
The eyeball investigations reveal a brand new, luxury ocean liner of incredible size and technology,
with fresh paint, some of it possibly still tacky, nested in mud on the floor of the North Atlantic at approximately
2:28AM, April 15, 1912.
Perhaps a better question would be, what if Thomas Andrews had gotten an additional ten lifeboats?

These are not the questions I asked.

The whole question is preposterous.

I respect your opinion but there is no need to make fun of my thread with statements like that:

What is she was made of foam rubber?

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Yes they did receive ice warnings but if I remember correctly the Mesaba message which reported of ice right on their way in the night of the sinking wasn’t delivered to the bridge and if delivered could possibly have lead to bigger caution regarding the speed of the ship.

Don't be so sure.

The key point was that they knew, and not only did they know, they knew when they would be in the region of ice, discussed the problems, and even (Per Lightoller) gave special instructions to the watch to be on the lookout for growlers and bergy bits.

The Masaba message might have changed their minds, but I'm not really convinced of that. Not when they were already knowingly going into a region of ice.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

In a way, the offhand manner in which the earlier ice warning from the Baltic, another White Star ship, was dealt with suggests that even if Captain Smith had received the later Mesaba message, he might not have changed course and/or slowed the ship down. I strongly feel that the Mesaba message never reached the bridge, although I do not believe Lightoller's 1935 story about a dying Phillips telling him about shoving it under a paperweight.

The one thing that I have wondered is, IF the Mesaba message had been taken to the bridge and Murdoch had learnt about it through Moody, would the First Officer then have alerted the Captain and gone so far as to suggest slowing down / changing course?

 

[Steven Christian]

I'm fairly sure that if he did manage to dodge the iceberg in a manner that was very close Captain Smith would have thrown him an "atta boy". But like Michael has pointed we would have never known because the whole Titanic saga would have never happened. One thing I have wondered about though is that shipping companies knew even before Titanic left Southampton that there was heavy ice along the traditional route. I know they had certain deadlines to try and maintain, mail contracts and such, schedules ect. But why didn't they have a contingency plan for adverse conditions. Shift the route further south. Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing. Makes geniuses of us all. Cheers all.

 

[Sarah S]

I am not sure how much Captains and Officers generally relied on ice warning messages for the course of their ship. I was always a bit confused about the topic with the Mesaba message. For Lightoller, it was a fatal mistake that it wasn’t delivered to the bridge, but many experts again said it wouldn’t have changed a thing. So does that now mean ice warning messages aren’t all that important since the Crew and Captain usually know beforehand what awaits them on their way?

Anyways, I notice my question is once again a bit pointless since nobody can ever really prove the answer

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Anyways, I notice my question is once again a bit pointless since nobody can ever really prove the answer

Maybe not, but it opened up the avenue of discussing the attitudes of the day, which were a part of leading up to the Monday Morning from Hell. The Titanic was operated no differently from any other period liner and as it had worked for over a century, they had little compelling reason to change.

They got a reason, but almost 1500 people paid for that lesson with their lives.