What if

[Michael H. Standart]

Robert, if you scroll to the top and click on the link to the Californian article that I co-wrote with Tracy Smith and Captain Wood, you may see that some of your questions were answered. Dave Gittins goes into some of the Californian "What If's" at http://users.senet.com.au/~gittins/californian.html

If the Californian had figured things out and responded in a timely manner, they couldn't possibly have arrived until around 2am local apparant Titanic time. (Remember, the Californian's wireless had been shut for the night.) By this time, the Titanic would have been far enough gone that I don't think Captain Lord would have chanced pulling up alongside.

That would leave them with the option of clearing out as many lifeboats as possible so they could be sent back to fish out swimmers.

Intership transfers are a rather time consuming task, even with motorized boats, and all they had available then was the oar! With 1500 plus people still trapped on the ship, they would have needed several hours to get the job done. At best, they would have had only 20 minutes, and that's if they were only between 10 to 12 miles away.

If they were in fact 19 to 20 miles away as per the arguements coming from Captain Lord's champions, such an operation doesn't even bear discussion as they wouldn't get there until about an hour after the ship sank.

The short version of this is that they needed time...lots of it...and they just didn't have it.

 

[Robert T. Paige]

>>The short version of this is that they needed time...lots of it...and they just didn't have it.<<

....In addition to too little time they had too many "If's" against them....

My premise would have had to have everything go perfectly as far as timing goes...If I'm correct , I believe the CQD was not sent until 12:45 AM ?

"If" the CQD had been sent earlier. "If" the Californian's wireless hadn't been shut down.
Et Cetera, Et Cetera and So Forth.

My thoughts about the rescue came from Gareth Pawlowski's "Flat Tops and Fledglings."

Thanks for the reference. I will have to check that out. The only problem I have on this website is that there is so much information you don't know where to start to look for the answer to a specific question without wading through all the subjects until you find the right one.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>My thoughts about the rescue came from Gareth Pawlowski's "Flat Tops and Fledglings."<<

I'm afraid I'm not familier with this particular work or this author's credentials. Did he propose pulling up alongside the Titanic so everyone could just run across?

Such a move would have been theoretically possible in a dead calm sea, but I'm afraid it would have been hopelessly unrealistic as a practical matter. It's not as if they could have just thrown some planks from one ship to the other and have everyone run across. Further, if Californian had been alongside when Titanic broke up, she almost certainly would have been seriously if not fatally damaged.

 

[Robert T. Paige]

>>I'm afraid I'm not familier with this particular work or this author's credentials. Did he propose pulling up alongside the Titanic so everyone could just run across?,,

Such a move would have been theoretically possible in a dead calm sea, but I'm afraid it would have been hopelessly unrealistic as a practical matter. It's not as if they could have just thrown some planks from one ship to the other and have everyone run across. Further, if Californian had been alongside when Titanic broke up, she almost certainly would have been seriously if not fatally damaged.<<

There wasn't any mention of the Titanic or a proposal to pulling up to Titanic in Mr. Pawlowski's book ....this was a bit of conjecture on my part.

Mr. Pawlowsi served in the USN and his book covers the history of US Navy Aircraft Carriers from USS Langley (CV-1) to USS Chester W. Nimitz (CVA [N] -68).

The account referred to was that of rescue attempts during WWII to the USS Franklin by the USS Santa Fe and other ships. There was considerable risk as you outlined.
"...All of the time, the Santa Fe was violently bumping against the sponsons of "Big Ben"...."
"....The USS Hunt DD-674 and USS Marshall DD-676
picked up 600 men from "Big Ben" ; the USS Hickox DD-673 and USS Miller DD-535 took on several more..." (Page 123)
"Men were transferred from the smoldering Franklin to the Santa Fe by various ways: makeshift mailbags and breeches buoys were used...etc." (Page 124)

-"Flat Tops and Fledglings", by Gareth L. Pawlowski, Castle Books, New York , 1971.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>this was a bit of conjecture on my part.<<

Ahhh...I see. Not the first time it's been brought up. I've seen copies of some of Leslie Harrison's notes where just this sort of thing was proposed and this was back in the 60's. He didn't think the idea was very practical and I'm inclined to agree with him on that point.

About the only thing working in favour of such a manuever is that the sea was a dead flat calm. Beyond that, I doubt it would have even been considered. Merchant Marine officers...unlike their Navy counterparts...don't generally have training for that sort of thing. Drawing ships together in the open ocean is not for the faint hearted even under well controlled ideal conditions. Doing so with a distressed vessel on the verge of plunging to the bottom which happens to be massively larger then you are would be as courageous as it would be foolhardy.

 

[Robert T. Paige]

>>Doing so with a distressed vessel on the verge of plunging to the bottom which happens to be massively larger then you are would be as courageous as it would be foolhardy.<<

...And the Cruiser and the Aircraft Carrier were more nearly equal in size than were the Californian and Titanic .... There were some other accounts in the book where sailors (and I believe there was also a jeep ) that just rolled off the deck of the Aircraft Carrier and fell on the deck of the Cruiser...

 

[Samuel Halpern]

>>The only problem I have on this website is that there is so much information you don't know where to start to look for the answer to a specific question without wading through all the subjects until you find the right one. <<

I think the real problem is knowing what information is valid when you see it.

 

[Bob Godfrey]

That's a very good point, Sam, especially in those areas in which much new information and interpretation has come to light in recent years. When looking through older threads I often come across postings by a bloke called Bob Godfrey which I would now call into question!

 

[Paul Rogers]

"When looking through older threads..."

That's nothing, Bob. I keep coming across posts by some idiot called Paul Rogers who, quite frankly, has posted nothing but drivel right up to the present day!

 

[Bob Godfrey]

Oh, I dunno. He does spell his name right. Usually. But what gets me, Paul, is when those two characters start a conversation. You've never seen such a load of old cobblers!

 

[Robert T. Paige]

>>That's nothing, Bob. I keep coming across posts by some idiot called Paul Rogers who, quite frankly, has posted nothing but drivel right up to the present day!<<

And then there are similar posts of that nature by another idiot called Robert Paige. He claims to have served some time in the U.S. Navy but you'd never guess so from some of his posts.

>>I think the real problem is knowing what information is valid when you see it.<<

And that's part of the fascination of this website. Cheers to all ! ;-)

 

[sharon rutman]

What if I'd never seen that first Time Tunnel episode as a kid with oh so cute James Darren as Tony Newman landing smack on the Titanic? What if I'd never read A Night To Remember of risked punishment as a kid to stay up past my bedtime to see the flick when it first appeared on network TV. Yes, I remember times before cable TV and computers! Hmmmmmmmm.......

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>Yes, I remember times before cable TV and computers! Hmmmmmmmm.......<<

As do I...barely. The nice thing about cable and satillite is that you can avoid NBC's annual rerun of The Wizard of Oz. You can also catch a lot of the Titanic related stuff in short order. If you miss it, there's always the wonders of recording.

 

[David G. Brown]

Kids!
Some of us remember before TV. And, when TV was black & white. Does anyone else from the U.S. recall the Dumont Television Network? Or, sitting in a dimly lighted living room watching the radio?

-- David G. Brown

 

[Roy Kristiansen]

>>Or, sitting in a dimly lighted living room watching the radio?

Absolutely, Dave!

The only reason my parents bought a B&W TV in 1954 was to keep me from watching at the neighbors' home across the street!

'-)

Roy