Alfred Nichols

[Thomas Krom]

Excellent post Thomas, thank you.

Thank you my friend. One more detail however.

including the other one on port side D-deck about 10 to 12 feet aft of the open door,

The gangway door aft of it was only 7 feet and 4 inches aft of the forward one.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

By the time Nichols and his men started to fiddle with the operating mechanism, the Titanic was about 5-degrees down by the head.

Where is this number coming from? If that were true, then the forward well deck would have been awash and forward part of the forecastle would have been under water.

 

[Julian Atkins]

The door was still in it’s place when the wreck was discovered in 1985

Hi Thomas,

Thank you most kindly for the important further details, of which I am most grateful.

When you state as per the above door was still in it's place, what do you mean? Was it shut or open?

Many thanks,

Julian

 

[Thomas Krom]

When you state as per the above door was still in it's place, what do you mean? Was it shut or open?

I meant with in it's place that it was still open in it's hinches before it fell off between 1993-1995.

 

[Julian Atkins]

Thank you Thomas for your further clarification. Most helpful. Very grateful.

Sam Halpern do you have a view on all this please?

Cheers,
Julian

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Where is this number coming from?

Broadly, from this article: http://www.titanicology.com/Titanica/TrimAndHeel.pdf by you Sam. I am following that along with related opinions from other researchers who shall remain nameless for the time being.

Based on what Lightoller said about him giving the gangway door order to Nichols while they were working on Lifeboat #6 and blending that with your chronology mentioned by Thomas in post #5 of the "Accurate Timeline" thread , I roughly calculated that the boatswain and his men tried opening that port side D-deck gangway door around 01:20am. Going then by your own "Time & Heel" article link above, the Titanic was about 4-degrees down by the head at the time; a few other researchers have suggested that it was closer to 5-degrees and so I said "about" 5-degrees in my post above, which could be anything between 4 and 5 degrees.

Mind you, I was not that far off the mark compared with a mutual old friend, a former Captain and marine investigator, who defended Lowe's statement that the Titanic was between 12 and 15 degrees down by the head when the Fifth Officer first arrived on the boat deck.

If that were true, then the forward well deck would have been awash and forward part of the forecastle would have been under water.

Well, in that same Time & Heel article, you have the Titanic down by 5-degrees at the head by around 01:45am. The associated picture shows the prow still clearly above the water and a bit of the side of the ship along the forward well deck also just visible above the waterline. Would flooding as you mentioned above have taken place at 5-degrees trim? I thought not.

The next picture in your article with the bow now down by 6-degrees shows both eventualities very likely, of course.

Sam Halpern do you have a view on all this please?

Yes, I would also very much like to hear Sam's views on the chain of events that could have led to the port side gangway door on D-deck being found open on the wreck. In particular, I am finding it very hard to imagine what Boatswain Nichols, whom I consider to have been a very experienced and reliable sailor, thought and did during that trip below. I cannot accept that he would have ordered the door to be left open and although I have agreed with Thomas that they might have inadvertently not re-closed it properly, I find it hard to believe that Nichols himself would have done that. One possibility - and I stress that this is only my conjecture - is that after deciding to reclose the gangway door, Nichols ordered a couple of his men to secure it and that they did not do it properly.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

I roughly calculated that the boatswain and his men tried opening that port side D-deck gangway door around 01:20am. Going then by your own "Time & Heel" article link above, the Titanic was about 4-degrees down by the head at the time; a few other researchers have suggested that it was closer to 5-degrees and so I said "about" 5-degrees in my post above, which could be anything between 4 and 5 degrees.

Thanks for the explanation, but there is a very big difference between 4 and 5 degrees at 1:20am. The 4° at 1:20am was based on Symon's observation from boat No. 1 which, as you know, reached the water around 1:15am, and pulled away from the ship. At that time, around 1:20am, he saw the 2nd row of ports on the forecastle go under. The well deck would have been still dry at that time, and ship was no longer carrying any perceivable list. If Nichols opened that door as late as you say, the 4° waterline would have been about halfway between D and E decks by those doors. You can see that here from starboard profile view:

 

[Julian Atkins]

We still don't have any explanation as to how this D deck gangway door raised from the wreck has no locks on one side.

Without explaining this omission,
I would tentatively suggest that we are speculating.

Why would Nichols and his gang not close properly any gangway door they had opened, if indeed they ever did open any lower gangway door on E deck or D deck. I don't think that they ever did open any gangway door at all and did not carry out the stupid order from Lightoller. They probably went down to E deck as ordered, then went back above. And as we know none of them had any further interaction with Lightoller.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

If Nichols opened that door as late as you say, the 4° waterline would have been about halfway between D and E decks by those doors.

Agreed and that probably made him decide to close it again. I know it is speculation but if his men opened the door slightly and found how close the sea already was, they could have re-closed the door in a hurry and there is a chance that they failed to secure it properly. I still believe that the door could have blown open when the bow section struck the ocean floor.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

I still believe that the door could have blown open when the bow section struck the ocean floor.

I agree! And I agree that it was unlocked by the crew that night.

 

[Julian Atkins]

I agree! And I agree that it was unlocked by the crew that night.

Unlocked, and then locked again surely?

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Unlocked, and then locked again surely?

Yes, but looking at the complex mechanism of locking-unlocking the gangway door depicted by Thomas' diagrams, there is the chance that Nichols' crew did not secure the door properly if they were in a hurry. IMO, they could have felt rushed when they discovered that the sea level was as close to the threshold of the door as Sam's sketches show; also, the fact that the grill gate was not closed and locked suggests that they were in a hurry.

 

[Mike Spooner]

Are we looking for excuses the crew member didn't know how the gangway door worked by unlocking or to lock? As I have said before the door must be the same type as used on Olympic or any other WSL ships to.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Are we looking for excuses the crew member didn't know how the gangway door worked by unlocking or to lock?

Nobody is looking for any excuses. But a crew member - any crew member - is a human being and can make mistakes when under pressure. History is full of examples but we won't go into that here.

I did not claim that Nichols or any of his chosen crew definitely made a mistake, but looking at the evidence available - both statements and physical - the possibility does exist.

 

[yotsuya]

Here is what I think the likely scenario was. Lightoller gave the order and Nichols took several men below and opened the forward door on D deck. It was still a good distance above the water. He went back up and told Captain Smith. Captain Smith tried to get boats to come back to load to full capacity from the door. Nichols and Lightoller were both busy loading the boats and no one bothered to close the door when the boats didn't come back. The door did not significantly impact the sinking because while it looks large, it is only 15 times larger than a port and from the various accounts, there were far more than 15 ports open on the ship.

The sense I get from all the accounts is that they were going on the right track, but their is a level of disorganization on everything. They just weren't quite on the ball. I think that is what accounts for the things that we, looking back and thinking clearly, question the logic of. I know that in the moment things can seem logical and only when you look back can you see how idiotic it was.