Alfred Nichols

[Arun Vajpey]

Lightoller gave the order and Nichols took several men below and opened the forward door on D deck. It was still a good distance above the water. He went back up and told Captain Smith. Captain Smith tried to get boats to come back to load to full capacity from the door. Nichols and Lightoller were both busy loading the boats and no one bothered to close the door when the boats didn't come back.

That scenario is certainly possible but for the port-side D-deck gangway door to be still a "good distance" above the water when it was opened, Nichols must have opened it around 01:00am or even slightly earlier like some theories suggest. As things stand I don't agree with that theory because from then till the Titanic actually sank is too long a time for only a couple of sightings - one of them disputed - of the boatswain to have taken place. Nichols was a big, burly Australian and during his presence on the boat deck would have been active and probably quite vocal - in other words, very noticeable. Most specifically, Lightoller himself testified not only that he gave the gangway door order to Nichols while he, Lightoller, was supervising loading of Lifeboat #6, but also that he never saw the boatswain again. Putting aside for the time being the debate about whether Lifeboat #8 or #6 was lowered first, IMO Lightoller was around the forward part of the port side boat deck till at least 01:10am (otherwise, where was he?). If Nichols had opened the gangway door so early that the water was still well below that part of the D-deck, Lightoller would have still been on that part of the boat deck when Nichols came back to report and could not have failed to see the boatswain.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Unlocked, and then locked again surely?

Your applying your own sense of logic here. As far as why wasn't that one door locked, one can argue that the only order was simply to get the door unlocked, which they did.

The evidence, as best I understand it, is that the forward D-deck door gate was raised so that the door could be opened. The door was seen on the wreck in an opened condition before it broke off, and some of the locking handles are missing, suggesting that they had eventually brok off as the door itself did, from what I understand. At the time the door was opened, the ship was listing to starboard by most accounts, and unless it was swung open wide, it would have had a tendency to close. There are no accounts from anyone in boats 6 or 8 that said they saw an open gangway door as those boats were lowered, suggesting to me that the door was not swung wide open, but was allowed to close if opened at all. So now you ask, why didn't they lock it? Could be that they realized that an open door by itself is useless unless people had a way to descend to a boat that was in the water below. What was needed was to find a Jacob's ladder or some kind of netting that can be used to allow passengers to climb down into a boat from an opened door. We know Hogg was told by Nichols to get such a ladder when he was over on the starboard side, and that Hogg was told by Murdoch to drop that and get into a boat when Hogg returned. At some point it was obviously decided that getting gangway doors opened was not a good use of human resources at that time, but getting the boats out was.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

What was needed was to find a Jacob's ladder or some kind of netting that can be used to allow passengers to climb down into a boat from an opened door.

I have always wondered about how practical using a Jacob's ladder to get into a lifeboat would have been had they tried it. Yes, I know that many passengers used ladders to get on board the Carpathia later but that was a different scenario. It was daylight, the ship was steady, they were not pressed for time and there were plenty of crew on hand to help. But to climb down a ladder into a lifeboat in darkness from a steadily sinking ship with the sea closing all the time would have been a totally different proposition IMO. More than anything else, all concerned would have been aware of passing time and would those demure First Class ladies - or even Third Class women and children for that matter - have been able to use the ladder swiftly enough to make the effort worthwhile? Many were frightened of simply getting into lifeboats and being lowered, let alone negotiate gaps that later developed due to the port list; I can imagine people, probably being harried by others waiting their turns, freezing, panicking, falling etc while trying to get down the ladder into a lifeboat.

 

[Julian Atkins]

As I have said before, I am not that interested in this thread particularly, but I am interested in the evidence and how it is dealt with, which might be a surprise from the number of my posts here recently.

My “own sense of logic” I thought was, according to Sam’s on other matters, to challenge and test the available evidence.

We have an open D deck port forward door raised from the wreck with it’s aft locks completely missing. Lightoller ordered apparently Nichols and his gang to E deck. It is assumed that Nichols disobeyed this order by instead opening a D deck port door as described by Thomas. Then it is suggested on here that they failed to lock it again properly such that it would open as the ship dived down to the floor of the ocean.

You turn a handle. Well, a number of handles, but not rocket science. It is a door! Ok a heavy door, but the weight is probably taken by the hinges. The locking mechanism is simple and easy to understand and use.

Then apparently we have 4th Officer Boxhall that much later on ordered to go in his emergency lifeboat round the stern from the front of the port side to the starboard side to what might be an E deck door aft.

I don’t believe anything about ANY of ANY of this in it’s entirety over many pages over many weeks. It is nonsensical and illogical and is not common sense. I accept Thomas’s evidence that a port forward gangway door has been raised from the wreck and the photographic evidence of this.

I don’t accept that Captain Smith ordered any lower level doors to be opened. I don’t accept that Lightoller did this either. I think there is a simple explanation to all of this.

 

[yotsuya]

As I have said before, I am not that interested in this thread particularly, but I am interested in the evidence and how it is dealt with, which might be a surprise from the number of my posts here recently.

My “own sense of logic” I thought was, according to Sam’s on other matters, to challenge and test the available evidence.

We have an open D deck port forward door raised from the wreck with it’s aft locks completely missing. Lightoller ordered apparently Nichols and his gang to E deck. It is assumed that Nichols disobeyed this order by instead opening a D deck port door as described by Thomas. Then it is suggested on here that they failed to lock it again properly such that it would open as the ship dived down to the floor of the ocean.

You turn a handle. Well, a number of handles, but not rocket science. It is a door! Ok a heavy door, but the weight is probably taken by the hinges. The locking mechanism is simple and easy to understand and use.

Then apparently we have 4th Officer Boxhall that much later on ordered to go in his emergency lifeboat round the stern from the front of the port side to the starboard side to what might be an E deck door aft.

I don’t believe anything about ANY of ANY of this in it’s entirety over many pages over many weeks. It is nonsensical and illogical and is not common sense. I accept Thomas’s evidence that a port forward gangway door has been raised from the wreck and the photographic evidence of this.

I don’t accept that Captain Smith ordered any lower level doors to be opened. I don’t accept that Lightoller did this either. I think there is a simple explanation to all of this.

Lightoller said he did. There is no benefit to him making that part up. Nichols is not seen for a period of time that would have allowed him to do this. The inner grate to the door was opened and stowed. When the wreck was found in 1985, the door was there and open. When that foyer was explored two decades ago, it was clear that the other D deck door had its grate in place. So the preponderance of evidence is that the door was opened on orders from Lightoller. All the other forward doors were closed. Now, if the inner grate was in place, then I could agree with you. But the inner grate is stowed as it is supposed to be to open the door. That verifies the whole incident in my mind.

As with many of the orders given that evening, it smacks of desperation and unpreparedness. But that is really the crux of the entire incident. No one thought such an accident could happen, especially Captain Smith. No one was prepared. The White Star Line had no plan for what the crew should do. Sure they had lifeboat drills, but the crew didn't know the lowering capacity of the boats or the davits. They never made the emergency plain enough to the passenger to get them to board the lifeboats. 400 people died because the boats weren't full and they couldn't get the boats lowered unfilled to come back and get more people. And the thing you cannot do when looking back at the people handling such an unexpected emergency is expect them to act with any logic. It is clear from the laws on the books to the public reaction to the sinking that no one thought it could happen. Culturally it was a huge blow to the feeling of the day that technology was at a high and we had beaten nature. Captain Smith was quoted that he could not fathom any situation that would make a ship sink. WWI was still 2 years away. It was a different world and the sinking of Titanic shattered that world in many ways.

And in so many ways Lightoller's order and this door left open on the wreck is the prefect example of the desperation of the crew to save as many as possible. Even going as fast as they did in lowering the boats, they did not get the last two launched. Time was not on their side. The Captain and the officers knew it, but many of the crew and passengers did not. Even in the midst of the ship sinking, they could not conceive that it was actually sinking. So many refused to get in the boats. Many though it was just a precaution. To use a word from The Princess Bride, the Titanic sinking was inconceivable. Because it was inconceivable to the world, the crew, the passengers, a great many oddities exist in the events. Most of us today are used to highly trained people ready for any catastrophe, but that was not True in 1912. They were ready for any normal illness, minor accident, man overboard, or any variety of passenger complaints, but not for the ship to sink. They were never trained for that possibility where today every cruise ship an airliner give us a full safety briefing on things that are extremely rare, but that we know could happen. It was inconceivable for the Titanic to sink so they all were winging it. So the order was given to open a door to aid in filling the boats. The door was forgotten and left open as it was found 73 years later.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Lightoller ordered apparently Nichols and his gang to E deck. It is assumed that Nichols disobeyed this order by instead opening a D deck port door as described by Thomas.

13900. Now let us pursue the two things you have mentioned. You say you gave those orders to the boatswain to go down with some men and open the gangway doors?
- Yes.

13901. Will you point out on the starboard side where they are?
- There are gangway doors one on each side there. (Pointing on the model.)

13902. About where you are pointing now?
- Yes, there are two doors one above and one below on the starboard side, but there is only one on E deck on the port side. The other gangway doors are here.

13903. In the afterpart?
- Yes.

13903a. What deck do those gangway doors open from?
- E deck.

13904. Were your orders general, or did they refer to one set of gangway doors in particular?
- General.

13905. Did the boatswain go off after receiving the orders?
- As far as I know, he went down.

So, as can be seen from that excerpt from Lightoller's testimony at the British Inquiry, he did give Nichols that gangway door order and while Lightoller admitted that he knew there was a gangway door on E-deck, he did not specify any particular door in his order to the boatswain, suggesting it was left to the latter's judgement. So, Nichols did NOT disobey any order.

Lightoller had also testified about the gangway door order earlier at the American Inquiry.
Mr. LIGHTOLLER.
Earlier, and before I realized that there was any danger, I told off the boatswain to take some men - I didn't say how many, leaving the man to use his own judgment, to go down below and open the gangway doors in order that some boats could come alongside and be filled to their utmost capacity. He complied with the order, and, so far as I know, went down below, and I did not see him afterwards. That took away a number of men, and we detailed two men for each boat and two men for lowering down.

I don’t believe anything about ANY of ANY of this in it’s entirety over many pages over many weeks. It is nonsensical and illogical and is not common sense.

Lightoller testified in both inquiries that he gave the order, admitted that Nichols took some men away with him resulting in a shortage of seamen on the port side - something that was demonstrated and Nichols, who was active with the starboard forward lifeboats earlier, was barely seen after around 01:10am and not at all again by Lightoller. The D-deck gangway door on the port side, the one that Nichols and his men were most likely to have opened, was seen and photographed to have been open at the wreck site, with its inner gate unlocked and stowed away while none of other gangway doors, including one that was only 7 or 8 feet aft of the open one, were in that position. As Thomas pointed out, the open door was intact and in position till the early 1990s and its falling off, missing locks etc took place around a timeframe when there were many expeditions to the wreck, some of them bringing pieces up.

In the face of such overwhelming evidence if you still choose "not to believe ANY of it", then it is your privilege. Of course the gangway door order did not make any sense but it does not mean that it was not given. There were other orders that made even less sense that were given that night; we have been though them already.

 

[Julian Atkins]

Hi Arun,

I am very sorry, but if Lightoller ordered Nichols and his gang to open an E deck gangway door, then if they didn’t do this then Nichols was not complying with /disobeying Lightoller’s order to him.

Cheers,
Julian

 

[yotsuya]

Hi Arun,

I am very sorry, but if Lightoller ordered Nichols and his gang to open an E deck gangway door, then if they didn’t do this then Nichols was not complying with /disobeying Lightoller’s order to him.

Cheers,
Julian

We don't know for sure what his orders were. Lightoller might have been thinking the E deck door but if he didn't say it and they went to the D deck door instead they were following orders. He said that is what he remembers, but we have no witnesses to his orders. The only two things that corroborate that he did issue an order of that kind is Nichols disappearance for a while and the forward port D deck door being found open on the wreck in 1985. Someone opened that door and it fits with the intent of Lightoller's orders.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I am very sorry, but if Lightoller ordered Nichols and his gang to open an E deck gangway door, then if they didn’t do this then Nichols was not complying with /disobeying Lightoller’s order to him.

Here we go again.

Lightoller testified very clearly that he did NOT specify any particular gangway door to Nichols. I have posted the relevant excerpt of that testimony above, but looks like you chose to ignore it. So again:
13904. Were your orders general, or did they refer to one set of gangway doors in particular?
- General.

As to Lightoller's allusion to the E-deck gangway door, if you read the sequence of questions and answers from 13900 to 13903a, it is quite clear that the committee was discussing the general position of gangway doors on both sides of the ship and Lightoller was pointing out in the model that there was only one E-deck door on the port side. He never said that he ordered Nichols to open that particular door and confirmed that in the very next statement in response to 13904.

So, Nichols did not disobey any order.

 

[Mike Spooner]

How many gangway doors where on the Titanic? If there was four or even more why weren't they used as well?