Alice Cleaver
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Michael H. Standart
Member
>>So you say that Trevor & there nurse were missing do you acctually think that the nurse capptured Trevor or is that impossible ?<<
Helen, I think you may be misreading the context of the story. As far as the Allisons were concerned, Trevor and Alice Cleaver were indeed missing, but nobody captured anybody. What happened was that Alice Cleaver took Trevor with her in one of the lifeboats. Unfortunately, the rest of the Allison family was unaware of this.
Helen, I think you may be misreading the context of the story. As far as the Allisons were concerned, Trevor and Alice Cleaver were indeed missing, but nobody captured anybody. What happened was that Alice Cleaver took Trevor with her in one of the lifeboats. Unfortunately, the rest of the Allison family was unaware of this.
Re: Alice Catherine Cleaver
"When she arrived in New York with the child, Alice avoided talking to reporters by telling them her name was Jean."
I believe that Alice Catherine Cleaver actually told the reporters that her name was Jane, not Jean. My evidence is in a book I picked up at a Titanic Museum in Branson, Missouri. But then again, it also says she is a child murderer. I might be wrong, but you might want to check your sources again.
"When she arrived in New York with the child, Alice avoided talking to reporters by telling them her name was Jean."
I believe that Alice Catherine Cleaver actually told the reporters that her name was Jane, not Jean. My evidence is in a book I picked up at a Titanic Museum in Branson, Missouri. But then again, it also says she is a child murderer. I might be wrong, but you might want to check your sources again.
Hello Lina,
That book is flat out incorrect, as the Alice Catherine Cleaver that was aboard Titanic was not the Alice Cleaver that murdered her baby. They were two completely different people and plus they had different middle names. That would be Alice Mary Cleaver that killed her infant. For many years, there was a lot of confusion between the two, but in recent times the family has been working very hard to try and dispel this myth.
Alice Catherine Cleaver was a very competent nursemaid and a respectable wife, and mother later on. If you click on the link from where you posted your message, you will notice that this information is at the end of her biography.
That book is flat out incorrect, as the Alice Catherine Cleaver that was aboard Titanic was not the Alice Cleaver that murdered her baby. They were two completely different people and plus they had different middle names. That would be Alice Mary Cleaver that killed her infant. For many years, there was a lot of confusion between the two, but in recent times the family has been working very hard to try and dispel this myth.
Alice Catherine Cleaver was a very competent nursemaid and a respectable wife, and mother later on. If you click on the link from where you posted your message, you will notice that this information is at the end of her biography.
Grant Woollacott
Member
alice cleaver was not confused with another who killed her baby. she did kill her baby and modern day psychologists recognize her pathology of replacing what she had lost with trevor and most agree trevor was taken without the allisons knowledge. in new york alice cleavers story changed many times at first she said she had told bessie allison. but she did no such thing and thats why the allisons died. before she boarded in southampton she had a tiny portrait made of lorraine and trevor and she had it put in a gold heart shaped locket. if alice cleaver had told the allisons why did she spend the night running up to people and showing them the portrait and asking if they had seen him. also if alice had told bessie why was bessie last seen holding lorraine, hugging hudson and screaming and whailing looking at the portrait if she knew trevor was safe this would not have happend. alice cleaver's name should not be cleared it should be marred with the stain of causing the death of the allison family. may the allisons find peace together in heaven.
mary mason
Member
Grant
What is your source for this "portrait" story? I've never heard anything like it in all the time I've been researching the Allison's so I would be interested to know where you got the information from. I won't even comment on your views on Nurse Cleaver.
Regards
Mary
What is your source for this "portrait" story? I've never heard anything like it in all the time I've been researching the Allison's so I would be interested to know where you got the information from. I won't even comment on your views on Nurse Cleaver.
Regards
Mary
Grant Woollacott
Member
mary
i was in orlando florida at the titanic expirience in the mercado and the actor there was portraying Hudson Allison. he talked about the locket and how bessie was seen running up to people asking if they had seen trevor and showing them his picture. then i asked him about it and he told me that she had done that.
i was in orlando florida at the titanic expirience in the mercado and the actor there was portraying Hudson Allison. he talked about the locket and how bessie was seen running up to people asking if they had seen trevor and showing them his picture. then i asked him about it and he told me that she had done that.
Ah, excuse me; but you are incorrect. Alice Catherine Cleaver was confused with the Alice Mary Cleaver that killed her baby. What makes you believe that they were the same person, when they clearly weren't?
This quote is from Alice Cleaver's biography:
The Cleaver family has vehemently denied that these two entirely different women were the same person. For years, they have attempted to clear her name for once and for all.
I disagree. Alice Cleaver should not be blamed for the deaths of Hudson, Bess and Loriane; that's outrageous. Sure, she may have made a mistake in not informing the Allison's that she was taking Trevor, but that's no reason to lay guilt on a nursemaid who did her utmost best. As I speculated in another thread, she may very well have panicked and completely forgot to let the Allison's know of what she was doing, which is not uncommon in situations such as that, before heading to the boat deck.
Since that's not considered a solid source and plus I've never come across it before, I'll take that story with a large grain of salt until I see more hard evidence.
mary mason
Member
"mary
i was in orlando florida at the titanic expirience in the mercado and the actor there was portraying Hudson Allison. he talked about the locket and how bessie was seen running up to people asking if they had seen trevor and showing them his picture. then i asked him about it and he told me that she had done that."
Thanks for explaining Grant.
If I had been there, personally I would have asked the actor where he got his information from. Like I say I have never heard about it before in all the time I have been researching the Allison family. It may be a good idea to do your own investigating before just believing what an actor at an exhibition told you.
I agree 100% with everything Jason has said about Alice Cleaver.
Kind Regards
Mary
i was in orlando florida at the titanic expirience in the mercado and the actor there was portraying Hudson Allison. he talked about the locket and how bessie was seen running up to people asking if they had seen trevor and showing them his picture. then i asked him about it and he told me that she had done that."
Thanks for explaining Grant.
If I had been there, personally I would have asked the actor where he got his information from. Like I say I have never heard about it before in all the time I have been researching the Allison family. It may be a good idea to do your own investigating before just believing what an actor at an exhibition told you.
I agree 100% with everything Jason has said about Alice Cleaver.
Kind Regards
Mary
John Knight
Member
Jason has said it all. I have read a lot of ignorant statements before about the Allisons and about Alice.
Nearly ALL of them are hear say at best. If you care to search a little more, Grant, you will see just what nonsense you have posted.
Nearly ALL of them are hear say at best. If you care to search a little more, Grant, you will see just what nonsense you have posted.
Grant Woollacott
Member
well i respect your opinons but what i posted was certainly not nonsense i have since contacted the actor and he told me this locket was discoverd when an old receipt was found in a southampton photo shop and testimony from a survivor says she ran up to people crying showing them the picture and asking them if they had seen him. Alice cleaver was a mentaly unstable LUNATIC and doing her duty to protect trevor justifys nothing. her story as to what happend changed 12 TIMES. may the allisons find peace together in heaven.
Grant Woollacott
Member
jason
how could she possibly have panicked when officers and other employees were telling the passengers there was no danger and they would be back for breakfast.
how could she possibly have panicked when officers and other employees were telling the passengers there was no danger and they would be back for breakfast.
John Knight
Member
I really think you should do a tad more research Grant. Maybe you could ask that 'actor' to show you the evidence? Or, better still, maybe you could tell us all his full name, so we can talk to him?
Regards.
Regards.
mary mason
Member
Grant who was the lockett supposed to have belonged to? Bessie or Alice? and if it was on the ship then how did it get to be found in a receipt in a Southampton photo shop? when was it found? I just think that if such an item was found then someone from the Titanic circles would have been informed of it. maybe a researcher or someone from THS. I can't see how only this actor knew about it, he must have been told about it by somebody. and i am sure that such a find would have got a mention in the papers as do most things which are found in connection with the ship.
I would however, advise you to find a copy of the book called From workhouse to prison to....Titanic. it was written by Alice Cleaver's daughter and actually has the hard evidence contained in it to prove that her mother was NOT a child murderer.
Alice Mary Cleaver was still in prison in 1912. she had killed her baby son in 1909 and was sentanced to hang, however this was reduced to life inprisionment. She died in 1915 in a hospital. I believe that is correct. I will have to get the book out to check.
Alice Catherine Cleaver - the lady on Titanic was NOT the same person as Alice Mary Cleaver.
Do you know the actor's name? I would be interested in contacting him.
I would however, advise you to find a copy of the book called From workhouse to prison to....Titanic. it was written by Alice Cleaver's daughter and actually has the hard evidence contained in it to prove that her mother was NOT a child murderer.
Alice Mary Cleaver was still in prison in 1912. she had killed her baby son in 1909 and was sentanced to hang, however this was reduced to life inprisionment. She died in 1915 in a hospital. I believe that is correct. I will have to get the book out to check.
Alice Catherine Cleaver - the lady on Titanic was NOT the same person as Alice Mary Cleaver.
Do you know the actor's name? I would be interested in contacting him.
Grant Woollacott
Member
i will not put his privacy in jeopardy
