All is not lost with British shipbuilding

mildly off topic but for politicians brains ( or lack of ) i have a nice little story. my 8 year old son said to me that when he grows up, he wants to be a teacher, but if he doesn't get the marks, he wants to be prime minister of australia!! ( i think he's closer to the mark than he thinks). on the subject on harland & wolff closing down, that is so sad & wrong but as said before, when do politicians ever think??
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kaz
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Thanks for those links Mike.

I understand that the order for two massive advanced 60,000-ton super aircraft carriers for the Royal Navy — which will be the largest warships ever built for the British Navy — has been confirmed, with a British firm winning the lion’s share of the deal. It’s sad that some of the work had to go abroad at all, but nevertheless 120,000 tons worth of shipping is a pretty decent output for British shipbuilders — that’s more than Olympic and Titanic in terms of an approximate 52,000-ton loaded displacement.

I wonder if Harlands will benefit from some of the work, or design process? I know several Barrow yards are expecting orders for parts -- is it too much to hope Lairds will be involved?

Best regards,

Mark.
 
BAE Systems was the company, as I understood from the lunchtime news. They might be Britain's top defence contractor.

I must confess to not paying as much attention as I usually do (something about doing some writing for a deadline
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If all naval orders were placed with British companies and spending not cut, shipbuilding here would be doing much better. I suspect the same might be true for America?

Best regards,

Mark.
 
>>I suspect the same might be true for America?<<

I think what would be helpful for America would be if more commercial orders were placed with American yards. The fact is that every American combatant is built in U.S. shipyards. I know of a couple of auxilaries that were built in the UK, but I don't know if they're still in service. I'll have to check my Jane's when I get the chance.
 
But America also has the advantage of the Jones Act, which reqires that American-built and flagged ships serve its coasting trade, i.e. for example between NYC and Miami. This will obviously be a boost to the commerical side of shipbuilding.

Here in Canada, we have large fleets like Canadian Pacific Ships, but it is all built and registered offshore.........a sad statement for a company that initially helped build the Great White North.

G
 
Gavin, as a libertarian I am usually anti government in almost all respects and the Jones Act is no exception. The requirements of the Jones act on some level do protect American coastal shipping. However the act totally stamps out almost all-deep water US passenger service. The high cost of unionized American crew combined with taxes crush even highly subsidized lines such as the American Hawaii line, which ran the beautiful Constitution and Independence. Additionally the Jones act hinders foreign ships from calling at 2 consecutive US ports. The lack of choice and interference these requirements place on the public are huge when you consider nearly all ships are flagged outside the US. Additional bare in mind that as a British company precious little CP tonnage was built in Canada to begin with. Well I am not sure about coastal ships perhaps these smaller ships were built in Canada.

An interesting anti-CPR flag-of-convenience shipping brochure put out by the Canadian Labor Congress
Currently on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2156013682&category=423

By the way Gavin your name is familiar to me. Did you give a talk at THS in 1992?

Brian
 
Hi B!

Thanx for your interesting comments on the Jones Act. There is obviously a difference between the coastng trade and deep-sea shipping. As I understand it, a deep-sea vessel running between, say NYC and London, need not be American-flagged or built. How does the Jones Act change that, except, perhaps, for your somewhat unique Hawaii example. Regardless, as a libertarian I assume you must have been appalled with subsidies going to AHL.

The Jones Act is an old form of cabotage. Nothing more, nothing less.

As for CP Ships, I think you are right as most were built offshore. In all my research, I only came across one coastal CP ship in the BC trade that was built in Canada. And that ship was built about 100 years ago.

Yes, B, I did give a talk at the THS convention in 1992 in Boston. God that seems so long ago. You have a good memory!

G
 
Regarding subsidies I am almost always against them. However transportation of people is wildly expensive. Throughout history states have had to help facilitate the movement of people. So in general as long as a private service that performs some governmental duty like hauling mail I don't have a big issue with transportation subsidies. Saying that I take enormous issue with programs like Amtrak, it has been an unmitigated service and financial disaster. I lay most of this blame on the fact that no free market forces are allowed to act on Amtrak. All shortfalls (over 25 billion in 30 years at last count) are made up with tax money. Bare in mind this is coming from someone who likes trains almost as much as ships. Still I support all sorts of radical ideas like the repeal of the income tax, removal of all most all European and Korean bassed US troops, and legalization of drugs.

Your presentation was great Gavin, I was just 15 then but I sat on the front row. I learned a lot about the Chateau and Hays in fact I still have the paperwork you gave out.

Brian
 
Hi,

With regard to these 60,000 ton carriers, according to last Sunday's Daily Mirror all the work is being done in British yards now, due to the political situation, rather than the 50-50 split between British-French firms eventually agreed upon sometime in February.

I suspect that it is a question of willpower -- these things can be done if there is the will behind them. Though I'm not sure if that would be true for the Queen Mary II & H&W.

Best regards,

Mark.
 
M,

This is interesting; French not involved now. I'm sure the Mirror is particularly impressed given their patriotic view of the world!

Regardless, I wonder if there are penalties for this latest move? Do you have any further news to share on this matter?

G
 
Hi Gavin,

All I really heard, from the Mirror, was that the construction projects on the two carriers was now all going to British yards, rather than being split.

I can't vouch for the report's accuracy, and I'm afraid that's all I know.

Best regards,

Mark.
 

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