Beesley in a 10-gallon hat

Wow - the Ellis Island Records site has proved something of a goldmine for me. Not only found Lawrence Beesley but his brothers Lewis Henry Beesley (2 trips), Frank Meredith Beesley (2 trips, 1 with his wife, Annie Kathleen) and Arthur Campbell Beesley (2 trips). And, also interesting I think, with the exception of 1 sailing, they all came over here on White Star liners. Arthur's journey on the Celtic, May 1912, is mentioned in Lawrence's book, as many of you know.

Can't wait to get into the PRO site...

Best regards,
Cook
 
Hi, Pat!

Here's a suggestion: try searching for 'alternate' spellings of Beesley (e.g. Beasley, Beesly etc.) It's not impossible that slight transcription errors might 'hide' a few pertinent name entries in the passenger manifests.

All my best,

George
 
Way ahead of youse guys - but thanks for the tip, anywho (This was how I was able to find Lawrence Beesley's daughter's photo on Ebay.)

Best regards, as always,

Cook
 
Curiouser and curiouser.

Still on the trail of this Beesley feller - Herbold, heads up! This one is a'comin' yore way.

Keeping in mind that Lawrence had a son in 1903, born in Cambridge, named Alec, I found this on the Ellis Island Records:

Alexander Beesley, born in Cambridge, England, sailed First Class at the age of 10, in 1913 aboard the Kronprinz Freidrich Wilhelm, which departed November 30 from Southampton and arrived in New York on December 8. His destination? Pasadena, California. Ticket paid for by his father, Lawrence, in Pasadena, California.

No other Beesleys or MacBeths (mother's maiden name) on the ship. However, there is a notation just above his of a woman who was probably (but not positively) accompanying him, which reads:

Winifred Donnell-Green (the records text reads “Daniell-Green” but that’s not what it looks like to me), age 27, Irish nurse, from London, England, states: “Going with First Class Passenger”. Also reads that the ticket was paid for “by his -------“ (can’t make this word out).

Also I discovered why Lawrence's name doesn't show up on the Carpathia/Titanic list when you search for it. Unless you know his name and go down the list closely, page by page, you'd never be able to decypher it, which obviously they couldn't. I finally found it on page #0143. The best way to see it is search for Charlotte Collyer; her name only appears once and it's on this same page - Lawrences is at the bottom. The writing is BARELY there - looks like they were just about out of ink.

Looks like Lawrence may have been on another tour as he did in 1912 after finishing his book.

More news when it happens.

Best regards,
Cook
 
Scratch Winifred as Alec's nurse - Molony pointed out that the written phrase "paid by his ---" is actually "paid by Miss ----". And the best I can find is Miss Winslow, according to the scribble, whom Winifred was accompanying.

Shows you what you do with a spare Saturday off.
 
Hey Randy!

It is a bit of a jumble in spots. My guess is there was a bit of a rush coupled with the frenzied nerves and unbelievability which would probably make a lot of people shake when they tried to write or even think clearly, that kind of thing.

Still, it's amazing to be able to look over it, even 90 years later.

Best regards, from one Tex to 'nother,
Cook
 
Pat:
Congratulations on a great find. Love that Ellis Island site. I'll go to the Pasadena Library tomorrow to see if I can turn anything up. A terrible thought for me: that is Pasadena, California and not Pasadena, Texas, right?
 
Pat:
When I asked the Pasadena question, I wasn't able to access the original manifest. Since then, it works, and it is clearly California.

But to make things a little more confusing, did you see the manifest for Alec Beesley, age 9, which also shows the ship as the Kronprinz Freidrich Wilhelm arriving NY on December 8th, but ex-Bremen on November 30th? That listing is lined out with the notation that he did not sail, but seemed to indicate he was to originally sail with a Daniel Connell to Chicago.
 
While I write some 22 years after the above conversation regarding the connection about the late Lawrence Beesley returning to the United States the year after his near-miraculous good fortune to find himself permitted to gain access to a lifeboat on the Titanic, located on the more 'generous' starboard side evacuation, under the command of First officer Murdock, I take note that in the Biographical sketch on Beesley found on this site, it is stated that Beesely's destination, at the time of the Titanic sinking was to visit one of his brothers, who resided in the city in which I was born: Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I will now attempt to look through census records for 1912 and 1913 to determine whether one of his several brothers did indeed make his home in Toronto in 1912. I might also add, I have been an avid historian of the Titanic since the young age of 1960, when I watched an airing in 1960 on television in Toronto, of the 1950 Clifton Webb (1889-1966) and Barbara Stanwyke (1907-1990) release of "Titanic". Even this romanticized version of the Titanic story was enough to addict me for life. Now some 60 years later, It is not an exaggeration to say that my library of books (some rare first editions) occupy 3, 20 foot long shelves of my home library. Save for one Op/Ed article on the subject of the Titanic's discovery and subsequent plunder on its 80th anniversary in 1994, I have only gained knowledge for myself. (Globe and Mail - April 14, 1990 ed. - one of two Canadian national newspapers. I attempted in 1983, to interest the CBC in investing in a documentary to correct the hundreds of myths that ran rabid both before and after the discovery. One last point - Second Officer Lightoller is often seen, even to this day, as a great hero of the Titanic story. ( I beg to disagree). First, he wholly misunderstood Captain E.J.'s command that the lifeboats be first boarded by women and children. Lightoller took this as meaning "Women and children ONLY" and as a consequence, while in command of the evacuation of the port-side lifeboats, he was responsible for the unnecessary loss of many lives, when there were no more women to be seen around his lifeboats. He also grossly underloaded most of the port-side lifeboats, not having taken the time to educate himself on the fact that Titanic's brand-new 'standard lifeboats set on the new Welan Davit design, could easily take up to 70 passengers from their Boat and A deck positions on the ship without fear of the lifeboat collapsing from stress when being lowered to the ocean below. His hard-headed attitude and ignorance, unlike First Officer Murdock on the starboard side evacuation, therefore, caused boats to be lowered with far, far fewer passengers and absolutely NO men. Indeed he even tried to prevent a young 15-year-old boy in First Class from entering a lifeboat. His father was outraged and stood up to Lightoller and managed to countermand Lightoller's order. The boy was consequently saved while an infuriated Lightoller was heard to say under his breath: "No MORE men". The outcome was that Lightoller's portside boats were underloaded until near the end, and therefore caused many unnecessary deaths. A nearly 900-foot ship is enormous, and it was entirely plausible that the women could be so far from sight in other areas of the ship that much-needed husbands were refused entry, thereby only adding to the death toll. Ironically, again and again in documentaries and feature films. Murdock is accused of having committed suicide by turning his firearm onto himself. There is absolutely no evidence to justify this claim, and the Murdock family has sought damages from both Warner Bros. and Cameron for depicting their ancestor as a coward in his Blockbuster 1997 film "Titanic". On the contrary, he was a pragmatic man and when women were not about, he would attempt to fill his lifeboats with older boys and men. He had understood E.J. Smith's command: "Women and children first!" not "Women and children only." If one checks the occupancy rate of portside lifeboats against the number saved on the starboard lifeboats, clearly Murdock deserved his position (at first as Chief Officer and then, after the famous replacement in Southampton, his demotion to First Officer. I see no glorious honour in unnecessarily condemning males from entering when clearly there were no women or children about his poorly loaded lifeboats.
 
While I write some 22 years after the above conversation regarding the connection about the late Lawrence Beesley returning to the United States the year after his near-miraculous good fortune to find himself permitted to gain access to a lifeboat on the Titanic, located on the more 'generous' starboard side evacuation, under the command of First officer Murdock, I take note that in the Biographical sketch on Beesley found on this site, it is stated that Beesely's destination, at the time of the Titanic sinking was to visit one of his brothers, who resided in the city in which I was born: Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I will now attempt to look through census records for 1912 and 1913 to determine whether one of his several brothers did indeed make his home in Toronto in 1912. I might also add, I have been an avid historian of the Titanic since the young age of 1960, when I watched an airing in 1960 on television in Toronto, of the 1950 Clifton Webb (1889-1966) and Barbara Stanwyke (1907-1990) release of "Titanic". Even this romanticized version of the Titanic story was enough to addict me for life. Now some 60 years later, It is not an exaggeration to say that my library of books (some rare first editions) occupy 3, 20 foot long shelves of my home library. Save for one Op/Ed article on the subject of the Titanic's discovery and subsequent plunder on its 80th anniversary in 1994, I have only gained knowledge for myself. (Globe and Mail - April 14, 1990 ed. - one of two Canadian national newspapers. I attempted in 1983, to interest the CBC in investing in a documentary to correct the hundreds of myths that ran rabid both before and after the discovery. One last point - Second Officer Lightoller is often seen, even to this day, as a great hero of the Titanic story. ( I beg to disagree). First, he wholly misunderstood Captain E.J.'s command that the lifeboats be first boarded by women and children. Lightoller took this as meaning "Women and children ONLY" and as a consequence, while in command of the evacuation of the port-side lifeboats, he was responsible for the unnecessary loss of many lives, when there were no more women to be seen around his lifeboats. He also grossly underloaded most of the port-side lifeboats, not having taken the time to educate himself on the fact that Titanic's brand-new 'standard lifeboats set on the new Welan Davit design, could easily take up to 70 passengers from their Boat and A deck positions on the ship without fear of the lifeboat collapsing from stress when being lowered to the ocean below. His hard-headed attitude and ignorance, unlike First Officer Murdock on the starboard side evacuation, therefore, caused boats to be lowered with far, far fewer passengers and absolutely NO men. Indeed he even tried to prevent a young 15-year-old boy in First Class from entering a lifeboat. His father was outraged and stood up to Lightoller and managed to countermand Lightoller's order. The boy was consequently saved while an infuriated Lightoller was heard to say under his breath: "No MORE men". The outcome was that Lightoller's portside boats were underloaded until near the end, and therefore caused many unnecessary deaths. A nearly 900-foot ship is enormous, and it was entirely plausible that the women could be so far from sight in other areas of the ship that much-needed husbands were refused entry, thereby only adding to the death toll. Ironically, again and again in documentaries and feature films. Murdock is accused of having committed suicide by turning his firearm onto himself. There is absolutely no evidence to justify this claim, and the Murdock family has sought damages from both Warner Bros. and Cameron for depicting their ancestor as a coward in his Blockbuster 1997 film "Titanic". On the contrary, he was a pragmatic man and when women were not about, he would attempt to fill his lifeboats with older boys and men. He had understood E.J. Smith's command: "Women and children first!" not "Women and children only." If one checks the occupancy rate of portside lifeboats against the number saved on the starboard lifeboats, clearly Murdock deserved his position (at first as Chief Officer and then, after the famous replacement in Southampton, his demotion to First Officer. I see no glorious honour in unnecessarily condemning males from entering when clearly there were no women or children about his poorly loaded lifeboats.
I read somewhere that Lightoller thought that men could swim when necessary, hence the " Women and children only " policy. And I agree on portrayal of Will Murdoch in the movie. he deserved better. I can add that in the first moments though not that many people sensed danger imminent, they thought the lifeboats much colder than the warm, still lit up ship. And as the time progressed, the situation had gotten worse,and the amount of the people onboard was far too big for filling in all the lifeboats, as we all know.
 
He also grossly underloaded most of the port-side lifeboats, not having taken the time to educate himself on the fact that Titanic's brand-new 'standard lifeboats set on the new Welan Davit design, could easily take up to 70 passengers from their Boat and A deck positions on the ship without fear of the lifeboat collapsing from stress when being lowered to the ocean below.
Second officer Lightoller stated his reasoning for doing so wasn't his worries that the lifeboats would collapsible, but more that the Welin quadrant davits would break down, either dropping and killing all occupants if it were to happen. As collected in a previous post Lightoller believed (a view shared by third officer Pitman and fifth officer Lowe) that the maximum capacity of a lifeboat and the lowering capacity where two separate things. Lightoller believed 35 to 40 people were the best lowering capacity.
First, he wholly misunderstood Captain E.J.'s command that the lifeboats be first boarded by women and children. Lightoller took this as meaning "Women and children ONLY" and as a consequence, while in command of the evacuation of the port-side lifeboats, he was responsible for the unnecessary loss of many lives, when there were no more women to be seen around his lifeboats.
Captain Smith never gave a clear indication to what his order was to second officer Lightoller. Captain Smith gave the following order to second officer Lightoller:
“Yes, put the women and children in and lower away.”
He never gave a clear indication if it were women and children first or only.
His hard-headed attitude and ignorance, unlike First Officer Murdock on the starboard side evacuation, therefore, caused boats to be lowered with far, far fewer passengers
I don't like to denounce Murdoch like this as I have a lot of respect for him, but his first lifeboats (these being lifeboat number 7, 5, 3 and Emergency lifeboat number 1) left with a lot of empty spaces too (lifeboat number 7 had 28 occupants out of it's 65 people capacity, lifeboat number 5 had an estimated 36 occupants out of it's 65 people capacity, lifeboat number 3 an estimated 32 occupants out of it's 65 people capacity and emergency lifeboat number 1 had 12 occupants out of it's 40 people capacity).
and absolutely NO men.
Second officer Lightoller allowed one man (this being Major Arthur Godfrey Peuchen) to slip down the ropes to man lifeboat number 6 and even wrote a letter on-board the Carpathia on the 18th of April that stated:
Major Arthur Peuchen was ordered into the boat by me, owning to the fact that I required a seaman, which he proved himself to be as well as a brave man.
C.H. Lightoller
Second Officer late S.S Titanic
When lowering collapsible Engelhardt lifeboat D he also saw underlöjtnant Mauritz Håkan Björnström-Steffansson (1883-1962) and Hugh Woolner (1866-1925) make a jump for it from A-deck and recalled in his 1935 memoirs:
As this boat was being lowered, two men passengers jumped into her from the deck below. This, as far as I know was the only instance of men getting away in boats from the port side. I don’t blame them, the boat wasn’t full, for the simple reason that we couldn’t find sufficient women, and there was no time to wait—the water was then actually lapping round their feet on “A” deck, so they jumped for it and got away. Good luck to them.
However, I do have to agree with you that these, with the crewmembers he put in charge excluded, the only examples of men he allowed in, which are indeed not many.
Indeed he even tried to prevent a young 15-year-old boy in First Class from entering a lifeboat. His father was outraged and stood up to Lightoller and managed to countermand Lightoller's order. The boy was consequently saved while an infuriated Lightoller was heard to say under his breath: "No MORE men".
You refer to what happened to John Borie Ryerson (1898-1986), who wasn't 15 but 13 at the time. However, it must be noted that the identity of the person that held him back is a bit conflicting. His mother, Emily Maria Ryerson (1863-1939), gave two versions of the story:
First we have Mrs. Ryerson her affidavit (dated the 16th of May 1912) that states:

My boy, Jack, was with me. An officer at the window said, "That boy can't go." My husband stepped forward and said, "Of course, that boy goes with his mother; he is only 13." So they let him pass. They also said, "No more boys."
The second time she recalled it not just the man who said it, but the location changed as well:
Q. Who gave the order to get into the life-boats, do you know?
- I don’t know; my impression would be it was Stout, the second steward; he was at the foot of the stairs as we came from the boat deck, and he put his hand in front of my little boy, who is 13, and said “He can’t go.” My husband said “Of course that boy goes with his mother.” The man said “Very well, sir, but no more boys.” And some woman rushed forward and took her hat off and put it on her little boy’s head, so he could go as a little girl, Mrs. Carter, I think.
So it was either Second steward George Charles Dodd (1867-1912) or Second officer Lightoller depending on the version.
Murdock is accused of having committed suicide by turning his firearm onto himself. There is absolutely no evidence to justify this claim, and the Murdock family has sought damages from both Warner Bros. and Cameron for depicting their ancestor as a coward in his Blockbuster 1997 film "Titanic".
While I am under the impression an officer did indeed commit suicide that night, I personally don't believe it was first officer Murdoch as he was seen alive by two witnesses (one of them being Lightoller) when the boat deck flooded.
On the contrary, he was a pragmatic man and when women were not about, he would attempt to fill his lifeboats with older boys and men. He had understood E.J. Smith's command: "Women and children first!" not "Women and children only." If one checks the occupancy rate of portside lifeboats against the number saved on the starboard lifeboats, clearly Murdock deserved his position (at first as Chief Officer and then, after the famous replacement in Southampton, his demotion to First Officer.
We don't know what order first officer Murdoch was given by captain Smith. And by the way, Murdoch served as first officer under captain Smith since May 1907 (he only briefly had a small break in September 1907 when he married his fiancé Ada). In my opinion Murdoch was a model officer and one of the finest officers' in service in the White Star Line.
I see no glorious honour in unnecessarily condemning males from entering when clearly there were no women or children about his poorly loaded lifeboats.
While I agree with you that first officer Murdoch saved more lives, you must under stand that Lightoller didn't knew the ship was sinking at that time and didn't knew how serious the situation was. Not to mention one of his (albeit flawed) plans was to load the lifeboats with more people from a gangway door, however this was never done since boatswain Nichols didn't report back to Lightoller (for unknown reasons as he was later seen on deck).
 
Timothy, making contact: I'm the grandson of Lawrence Beesley, now living in Toronto. To your note above: yes, 'to determine whether one of his several brothers did indeed make his home in Toronto in 1912: Arthur Campbell Beesley, brother of Lawrence, lived on Bain Avenue in Toronto prior to enlisting in the Canadian Expeditionary Force in WW1, verified by his enlistment documents appearing online. I believe Lawrence stayed with him after the Titanic episode. I can help with Lawrence's genealogy if it is useful. Philip Beesley [email protected]
 
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